Garage doors advice

[grainoftruth]

I'm looking to make a pair of garage doors out of oak and need advice on design.

What I am wondering is whether to make stand alone frames and then board in traditional gate fashion or whether that is unnecessary work and I can just cramp the boarding together and fix ledges and bracing to the back. Whilst the L&B option seems straightforward, will the door just bend as it finds its natural moisture content.

I ask because I have some ledged and braced oak doors internally in my house that are just perfect (supplied by specialist joinery company) and I also have some oak cupboard doors that a carpenter made for me years ago that bent like a banana as they settled in.

I have considered buying fully seasoned oak but as outside doors will the wood just move around season to season?

Thanks

Steve

 

[MikeG.]

Steve,

I'm afraid you will have to allow for expansion and contraction. It would be a shame to work in great wood and have rubbish doors........so do it nicely once!

Saying that, you can of course do ledged & braced doors.....traditionally done with half lap joins, the top board is fastened close to where it laps the lower board, neatly trapping both edges but allowing for movement. This works all the way across the doors except for one of the edge boards, which will require 2 fixings........so make this a narrow board, or have one of the fixings in an elongated hole.

Do you live anywhere near a castle or cathedral? If so, most of them have massive oak doors or gates. A few minutes studying them could be useful and interesting for you.

Mike

 

[joiner_sim]

If the doors are going to be at a point of entry that will compromise your security, I would make Framed, Ledged & Braced doors. If they are not going to be a secure point of entry, then ledged & braced may be okay.

All doors can twist and warp if they haven't been stored, hung, made or treated properly.

 

[OPJ]

I'd definitely go with framed doors. That way, you'll be able to fit a good quality five-lever deadlock and other things for security. You'll also be able to rebate the meeting stiles in the centre, for a tidy join that'll stop draughts and light from creeping through.

 

[mailee]

I would agree with Joiner Sim on the design as these are solid doors for a garage. I would also recommend using three Stainless bearing fire door hinges on each one as they are trouble free, secure and heavy duty enough for this type of use. (Not to mention they are stainless so resisit rust) :wink:

 

[grainoftruth]

Many thanks for the advice.

I think I'll definitely go with the framed ledged and braced doors. I'm tempted by the stainless steel hinges too except that I'd like the olde world look and was thinking of black iron strap hinges.

I'll post some pics as I progress

Steve

 

[joiner_sim]

Good luck with it. If you want any advice along the way just give me a PM, I've made hundreds of these and I'm actually making a pair at the moment.

You might want to apply the finish to the tongues and grooves of your boards before fixing them in, as if they shrink the gaps won't be unfinished timber.

 

[Dibs-h]

I found the following site a while ago and there's enough pictures for inspiration,

www.realcarriagedoors.com

HIH.

 

[Shadowfax]

I know this is not really relevant but I have considered making garage doors using exterior grade fire door blanks. I reckon the large unlipped ones would be suitable if cut to size, lipped with hardwood and then mouldings could be planted on the front face of the doors to make them look .....well, any way you want them to look, really.
What do you think?

SF

 

[joiner_sim]

An exterior door, is an exterior door, gets hung in an external frame like any other external door. Swings open, swings shut. The design of the door is upto the homeowner. So I don't think it'd be a problem, you may however need some extra tough heavy duty hinges to hold a fire door blank, they can be really heavy!

 

[Shadowfax]

Thanks for that.
You are right about the weight but some good hinges should do the trick.
Some nice ball- race hinges would be good, I think.
Cheers,

SF

 

[Derek Willis.]

For my two-pennorth, they have got to be framed for the strength they need, and this will allow you to rebate them together.
Derek.

 

[MikeG.]

Thanks for that.
You are right about the weight but some good hinges should do the trick.
Some nice ball- race hinges would be good, I think.
Cheers,

SF

That isn't the end of the story, though.........

Those hinges are attached to something. If that is a flimsy bit of inch lining, held back to the wall by a bit of chewed up newspaper and some filler, then that will fail under the load. The frame will need to be substantial enough, and fixed well enough, to take the door loads.

Mike

 

[EddieJ]

Sadly, garage doors are the one aspect that I hate about my job, but as I mainly make oak framed garages, it's a problem that I have to frequently address.
If possible I try and steer clients away from using oak, simply because there are too many inherent problems associated with the wood. Sadly even the slightest twist from either door looks bad, and I can guarantee that that is exactly what will happen.
Over the years I have tried many variations, fully framed, ledged and braced, even using a ply lining on one set.
I've assembled them butted with cover fillets, half lapped and lately running each plank along the table saw and inserting a tongue along the full board length. Adding a small stock chamfer to each plank also looks great and is worth the extra effort.
I've used green oak, air dried and kiln dried, but ultimately unless fully sealed, there isn't much between them.
Sadly for my point of view, clients just don't want to pay the money for a high quality set, but if I was making a set for myself, I would fully frame them with a rebate, tongue each board, maybe even use a floating cover fillet, and use 'air dried' oak. Simply to reduce cupping, I also wouldn't use boards that are very wide. I buy all my fittings from Perry hinges, but refinish them my self after purchase, as the quality isn't always up to much.
Also as mentioned, the hanging posts need to be pretty substantial, and I wouldn't even think of using any thing less than 200mm x 150mm

 

[Shadowfax]

Thanks for that.
You are right about the weight but some good hinges should do the trick.
Some nice ball- race hinges would be good, I think.
Cheers,

SF

That isn't the end of the story, though.........

Those hinges are attached to something. If that is a flimsy bit of inch lining, held back to the wall by a bit of chewed up newspaper and some filler, then that will fail under the load. The frame will need to be substantial enough, and fixed well enough, to take the door loads.

Mike

Absolutely, Mike
If I do this with my own garage doors there will be no such problem as the frame is made of much more substantial timber than that. I reckon I could use some pretty hefty screws to fix the hinges.
It was really nothing more than an idea, to be honest.
Very good point, though.

SF

 

[crazylilting]

I think oak is the worst choice for a door. I see lots of doors and i'll tell you they just don't stand up very well. It's not stable enough wood. Unless you are going to kiln dry it yourself, and spend a lot of time on joinery, wood choice by grain, used in the right places of the door and then use a finish that will seal it completely from the weather i wouldn't bother.

I've seen some blown apart, some with so much shrinkage that you can see through them, I've seen them warp so bad that they needed to be pulled out completely.

I think the reason is that back in the day the trees were a lot bigger then we get to mill now days. The older the tree the more stable they are, and the better cuts can be made for such joinery.

Now days when buying oak we are getting boards that will naturally cup because of how they are cut.