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Trainee neophyte

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It's entertainingly ironic that I have been shown, conclusively, that there are no sacred cows, and then you attack me for taking your sacred cow to task.

Serious question: do you take statins? Just about every man over 50 does, as far as I can tell. It would seem that they are pretty ineffective, but more importantly you can reduce your cholesterol levels just through diet, with impressively fast results - a couple of months at most. Take pills for the rest of your life, or live a healthier lifestyle: which treatment is better, and which is promoted by the NHS?

To be fair I know of one doctor who refuses to prescribe any pills until the diet method has been attempted first, but she is still young and enthusiastic. As I mentioned several pages back, science advances one funeral a time. Medicine the same, it would seem.

@Noel - profuse apologies. Won't happen again.
 
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clogs

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for those interested, I gave up on Statins.....they just dont suit me.....please read the side effects before taking them.....
mine cholest prob is in the family.....
virtually the same results with diet and natural products.....checked the numbers I have......over many years now....

I take only one other tablet, a 1/4 of the recomended dose.....blood thinners, I have a defib pacmaker.....side effects are still not so good.....

when I met my first doctor here, they asked what tab's I'm taking....they can't beleive it.....
.
Oh and stuff the FLU jab.......hahaha......
 

johnny

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I'm not even going to bother trying to explain to either of you. There is only so much disinformation on this thread already.

But if you've found a way to improve your health, weight and lifestyle John then good for you. It has nothing at all to do with " 60 years ofts your explan misinformation yet the powers that be will not admit their mistake despite the prevalence of obesity." But if it floats your boat then fair enough.

But in the interests of sanity....just how many peer-reviewed research papers has Ms Harcombe written ? That well-known medical researcher. What ? She hasn't actually got any medical qualifications ? She read economics and maths at Uni.

And, no, John ...I wasn't referring to you re stuffing ones face. It was a rhetorical statement.

I'm out of here.
looks like you have managed to add to the misinformation ...congratulations
.so whats your explanation for the current worldwide epidemic of coronary heart disease and metabolic syndrome ? .oh wait...you haven't any relevant qualifications and have done no research either. You post no links to any peer reviewed papers supporting your ignorant opinion on this topic and you think it acceptable to rubbish one of the Worlds recognised leading Nutritionists who has managed to achieve a PhD on Public Health & Nutrition ,(at least get your facts right) advises the Government and hold PHE to account on our behalf.
when you have achieved a relevant qualification on the subject you may have something worth saying about anything
 
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Benchwayze

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Bob. I said MAKES food; not harvests it. Ants appear to harvest only their natural food anyhow. I've been away from the forum for a good while. Nothing has changed much. I am also out of chitchat.
John
 

RobinBHM

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I was trying to make 2 points:

1. There is a tendency to treat the high priests of science as gods amongst men
2. sacred cows

Meh, not really.

you are using that as a strawman.

the bulk of scientists are in agreement on covid as they are with climate change.......you are using the sacred cow argument as a strawman to discredit them.
 

RobinBHM

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Should that be the standard way to stop having type 2 diabetes - you rummage on the internet and work it out for yourself? Thousands (possibly millions) are doing just that because worldwide the health systems haven't worked it out. Fasting and diet are hugely important factors in managing what is an epidemic in western societies. Why isn't the healthcare system doing anything about it?
you never give up with the dishonest debating, do you?


This
".................................just because worldwide healthcare systems havent worked it out"

is a non sequitur.

your reasoning that because it is possible to search on the internet to find reasons for type 2 diabetes..................means that the healthcare system haven't worked it out.
 

selectortone

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So you think it normal and acceptable and reasonable that someone has to go outside of the health care system to improve their basic health wrt being diabetic? Should that be the standard way to stop having type 2 diabetes - you rummage on the internet and work it out for yourself?
I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes three years ago after a routine checkup. The first thing my doctor did was book me onto a diabetic education programme. It was a series of meetings at the local leisure centre of a group of newly diagnosed people like me, run by the NHS with a nurse specialist and a dietician, which gave me an understanding of the causes of the condition and its treatment.

I learned that in many cases addressing diet and weight can get it into remission. I was a stone overweight and eating far too much stuff with sugar in it. I've managed to shed the weight and I now eat a much more varied and healthier diet and I'm pleased to say my diabetes is indeed in remission and has been ever since - confirmed by regular blood tests and diabetic clinics at my surgery.

All prompted by a regular health-check on the NHS. No 'rummaging on the internet'. Best of all, no meds necessary.

It isn't altruism either. I read recently that 10% of the entire NHS budget for England and Wales goes on diabetes so it is just plain common sense that educating people like me saves money.
 

Lons

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It's entertainingly ironic that I have been shown, conclusively, that there are no sacred cows, and then you attack me for taking your sacred cow to task
I didn't attack you personally TN I just said that what you had posted was tosh, in fact your response to that was the same though I didn't bother to reply. Neither did I ever mention sacred cow so you are mistaken in saying I have one. While we are well informed regarding the NHS there are no illusions whatsoever in that it has major failings and problems but as your opinions are formed by trawling the internet for anything that fits with your (perceived) paranoia I understand why you believe all you find, that's up to you but you shouldn't be spouting that mix of truth and fiction as absolute fact.

"Serious question: do you take statins? Just about every man over 50 does, as far as I can tell. It would seem that they are pretty ineffective, but more importantly you can reduce your cholesterol levels just through diet, with impressively fast results - a couple of months at most. Take pills for the rest of your life, or live a healthier lifestyle: which treatment is better, and which is promoted by the NHS?"

Nope I do not take statins, just as I would never take any other medication unless it was essential and even then not without checking with my family. My GP has never suggested that I do and I seriously doubt your statement that "just about every man over 50 does" where on earth do you rake up this stuff? ;)
BTW not all colesterol issues are caused by bad diet, there can be other reasons including hereditary factors and you're badly misinformed regarding what is promoted by the NHS who are very active in pushing healthy lifestye and early diagnosis. It saves them vast amount of money as medication and treatment is extremely expensive.

Just to put this to bed on my part I won't be responding to you any further on the subject of the NHS as you're once again just attempting to ramp up the arguments and that will end up with another locked thread.
 

FatmanG

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Meh, not really.

you are using that as a strawman.

the bulk of scientists are in agreement on covid as they are with climate change.......you are using the sacred cow argument as a strawman to discredit them.
Why are you bringing covid up again? Is it a last stand Robin? Full Lockdown (tier 4 ) coming to a place near you soon. Lol
 

FatmanG

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Did you get out of bed on the wrong side today? If you take a look back at your post I responded to you quoted Lurker's post which says "That jab is needed once in a lifetime, so it's got to be good." and you asked "Is that opinion or fact?"

The NHS link I linked to confirms it is given once for most people and that the PPV vaccine is thought to be around 50 to 70% effective at preventing pneumococcal disease which I thought you may find helpful.
Sorry I wasn't meaning to offend! My question referred to s'o it has got to be good' part of the post. Its efficacy was explained far better than I could earlier by a retired virologist..
 

Trainee neophyte

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My GP has never suggested that I do and I seriously doubt your statement that "just about every man over 50 does" where on earth do you rake up this stuff?
From the BMJ: NICE guidelines could put 12 million UK adults on statins

  • Almost all men over 60 and all women over 75 in England qualify for statin prescriptions under guidelines adopted by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) in 2014, a new analysis shows.1

  • Some 11.8 million people in England—37% of adults aged 30 to 84—exceed the threshold set by NICE for prescribing statins, the authors found. They said that most of these patients (9.8 million) are healthy, with no history of cardiovascular events, and are eligible for treatment simply because they exceed the risk threshold set by NICE: a 10% risk of experiencing such an event in the next 10 years.
Free with the cornflakes.

As for the rest of it - I'm picking olives now, now so much less time for all of this, you will be delighted to know. Best talk about flu jabs again - it's less contentious.

Incidentally, I'm watching the Amazon version of Utopia, which is apparently a remake of the BBC version, also called Utopia, which I haven't seen. The plot is a worldwide pandemic, which needs a vaccine, but the vaccine is actually an evil scheme by evil elites to sterilise the world population, so saving the planet for a select few. Perhaps this is where the current vaccine fears come from? Or it is the elite ironically telling us exactly what they are going to do? Who knows.

PS I like what you guys did with the termites - very ironic.
 

doctor Bob

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Bob. I said MAKES food; not harvests it. Ants appear to harvest only their natural food anyhow. I've been away from the forum for a good while. Nothing has changed much. I am also out of chitchat.
John
It was a light hearted comment, I hope you took it that way :) however I still argue they harvest grass to make mould which feeds them.
 

Lons

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OK TN I'll bite. You said "do you take statins? Just about every man over 50 does, as far as I can tell."
Qualifying and actually partaking are two very different scenarios :rolleyes:

I now know where you get your research, it's from Utopia! Happy olive picking I hope it's a good crop this year.
 

Benchwayze

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Understood Bob no problem. I suppose I was referring to processed food. It wasn't my quote it was one I saw somewhere online and I thought it had something to say say.just off for a virtual one mile walk in front of my TV. My legs are beginning to seize again

Cheers

John
 

Terry - Somerset

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Apperently between 6 and 8 million in the UK take statins.

The over 50 population in the UK is ~25m.

So ~25% of the over 50's use statins.

Sometimes useful to actually check the facts - although there is some debate whether more widespread use could be helpful.
 
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