swagman
Established Member
Mod edit after original author deleted opening post and renamed thread.
flattening a Japanese whetstone
- Thread starter swagman
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
I do mine every few years on the coping stones on the garden wall. 
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
What an incredible effort!
I don't bother flattening stones at all. You shouldn't let them get into the condition where they need flattening, it's just not necessary.
Useful tip if you are doing a wet process with wet n dry paper - use thin paper backed, not cloth backed, and stick it to your plate with water (or white spirit) alone. You need the plate to be bigger than the paper so it sits in a pool of fluid. It's much flatter this way and sticks tight enough for grinding purposes but is easy to remove. Helps if you store the paper between boards so it doesn't curl.
I don't bother flattening stones at all. You shouldn't let them get into the condition where they need flattening, it's just not necessary.
Useful tip if you are doing a wet process with wet n dry paper - use thin paper backed, not cloth backed, and stick it to your plate with water (or white spirit) alone. You need the plate to be bigger than the paper so it sits in a pool of fluid. It's much flatter this way and sticks tight enough for grinding purposes but is easy to remove. Helps if you store the paper between boards so it doesn't curl.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Oil or water - makes no difference - with careful use they shouldn't need flattening and a bit of a dip is perfectly OK.ED65":3eyro20r said:
The exception being those blades which need to be dead straight without camber (shoulder plane) - you might need to reserve a very flat stone for this - or follow something like out OPs process above but use the wet n dry direct on the blade, not waste effort flattening stones first!
Even madder is flattening stones with diamond plates. Cut out the middle man - use these expensive plates for sharpening, don't waste them on stones!
Jacob":33ddoca6 said:
I know I am an silly person to rise to this but if you have to keep a spare stone for when you do need a dead flat stone you might as well use it to flatten your waterstones. It takes seconds do to do and you then you don't need to perfect the art of avoiding hollowing your stones through normal use
One of my waterstones actually dips towards both ends. I've used them exclusively for 35 years, and if you use them carefully they don't need flattening very often.
swagman
Established Member
Gents. Lets not get stuck into another long debate on the pros and cons of keeping your honing stones flat.
regards Stewie;
regards Stewie;
Says the man who doesn't use waterstones. Seriously, you have no clue what the wear characteristics of some waterstones are like.Jacob":23k5zanf said:
I'm not getting into the flat/not flat debate here, that's the subject for a thread of its own and shouldn't derail someone else's thread.
I don't disagree on buying diamond plates to flatten stones being a bit silly when you could just be using the diamond plates themselves, but different people enjoy different ways of sharpening and that's their prerogative. Although I like oilstones myself I can understand why some people don't enjoy sharpening on them, just as I don't enjoy the watery mess and excessive wearing issues with waterstones.
swagman
Established Member
Gents. There is no implied pressure within this post to follow the same standard I set for myself.
regards Stewie;
regards Stewie;
What about using a Japanese flattening stone.
http://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/sharpening/sharpening_stones/Japanese_Flattening_Stone.html
I've used one of these on various stones, works really well.
http://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/sharpening/sharpening_stones/Japanese_Flattening_Stone.html
I've used one of these on various stones, works really well.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
I am a knife collector of sorts. Mostly Japanese single edge, so I use a lot of waterstones (mostly Naniwa) up to 12000 and a couple of J nats and some fingerstones. Some waterstones (mine are mainly splash and go) wear pretty fast and I just rub them over now and again with a Japanese flattening stone. Works fine and only takes a few seconds. Diamond plates are actually cheaper than a lot of the high quality waterstones. Different feel when sharpening. Horses for courses.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Ok some have special requirements, but for the ordinary woodworker like me - is there any point in setting up an efficient and cheap sharpening medium like wet n dry on a plate, or expensive but highly effective diamond plates, and using them to flatten ineffective soft stones, rather than sharpening the tools themselves and missing out the stones altogether, saving time and money in the process? I just can't see the sense of it.
The wet n dry and/or diamond plate will last much longer if just used for sharpening and not for stone masonry!.
NB if you do use wet n dry the "flooded pool on a plate" works much better than sticking them down or any other holding method. I do it on a planer bed - I occasionally fiddle with old tools and flatten the soles of old planes etc.
The wet n dry and/or diamond plate will last much longer if just used for sharpening and not for stone masonry!.
NB if you do use wet n dry the "flooded pool on a plate" works much better than sticking them down or any other holding method. I do it on a planer bed - I occasionally fiddle with old tools and flatten the soles of old planes etc.
Most of the sharpening stones have a longer life expectancy than diamond hones. Perhaps one of the biggest pains in the rear that I have dealt with is flattening things on diamond hones that are hollow in their length. No amount of skillful use will fix them and they leave deep scratches on the outside edges of things such as plane irons, and the hones themselves become fairly slow cutting due to ripping diamonds out of the matrix in very little time - especially given their propensity for random deep scratches.
On the other hand, for medium and fine waterstones, diamond hones will stay fresh enough just about forever as they don't get the same pressure they do with metal tools.
And you need only one.
On the flip side, an out of flat diamond hone can be used in the kitchen on cheap knives, especially if it's gotten too tired to use in the shop and some of the electroplate has ripped off. There is no need for a perfect sharpening stone in the kitchen and the ability to just pull out a tired old medium diamond hone and touch up a knife in a minute or less is very useful. The same can't be said for a group of stones that need to be soaked, flattened or made wet.
(of course, a washita will keep the tools and knives in shape and last as long as several gaggles of diamond hones).
On the other hand, for medium and fine waterstones, diamond hones will stay fresh enough just about forever as they don't get the same pressure they do with metal tools.
And you need only one.
On the flip side, an out of flat diamond hone can be used in the kitchen on cheap knives, especially if it's gotten too tired to use in the shop and some of the electroplate has ripped off. There is no need for a perfect sharpening stone in the kitchen and the ability to just pull out a tired old medium diamond hone and touch up a knife in a minute or less is very useful. The same can't be said for a group of stones that need to be soaked, flattened or made wet.
(of course, a washita will keep the tools and knives in shape and last as long as several gaggles of diamond hones).
AJB Temple
Finely figured
For gods sake don't say that on a kitchen knife forum. Some people will sharpen kitchen knives to a degree where you can shave a single hair. It's not hard to do. Not necessarily durable enough for cooking use though!
AJB Temple":3rzfttix said:
I have a couple of knives set up for guests who claim that they have the sharpest knives :twisted: Carbon steel japanese knives. My wife has banned them from being accessible on the counter, which is just as well.
Some of those euro knives that are saw temper or just above just don't warrant that kind of attention, though. My wife can make an edge that looks back at you on a euro knife within only a few days. I don't know what she's doing with them...cutting coffee cups, maybe.
bugbear
Established Member
D_W":2pbp473x said:
"Those euro knives" form a practical integrated cutting system when allied with a properly used butcher's steel.
In this model, sharpening is an every coupla' minutes deal, but only take 2-3 seconds, completely
different to the ritual of honing a hard blade on a sequence of stones.
It was also (at one point) super-refined. Double shear carbon steel (originally just a method
of mixing the high and low carbon parts of blister steel) happens to form a micro serrated edge under
this routine, which is astonishingly effective at cutting meat. Double shear steel (with
its interesting variability) continued to be made and used for butcher's knives, long
after perfectly uniform steel (the original goal) could be routinely made.
BugBear
Using a steel doesn't really sharpen the edge, you just re-set and align the folded edge that is damaged through cutting and remove any burrs that form. It seems like it is being sharpened but you are not actually removing metal like you would with a stone.
