Festool ac vac question

[ColeyS1]

I'm getting confused trying to figure out how the autoclean filter function works on the vac. From what I understand if I'm using the ac function then I shouldn't be using a bag because it'll just shake any dust that has passed through back onto the top of the bag?
A recent alteration to my current cyclone setup has had little effect so I'm now looking to get a vac that does it all but without the fuss. I'm just a bit fiddled trying to decide which vac ticks all the boxes
Cheers
Coley

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[shed9]

A Festool AC is really only suitable for fine dust like plaster. You won't really see a benefit in general woodworking.

I have a 48 AC and have never used the AC function when working wood.

 

[ColeyS1]

Doesn't the filter get clogged, or do you just use the bag ?

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[ColeyS1]

That's the kind of dust I'm getting. This is the outer filter on my current vac and the next round cartridge type filter was just as clogged. I only ever get that fine dust so thought the ac function would be useful?
Coley

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[shed9]

The filter looks as clean as the day I bought it which was about 12 months ago (ish).

I have a Midi connected to a Kapex and again the filter looks like new.

I have never seen filters clog like yours, what is the path for the waste from tool to end bin?

 

[ColeyS1]

So you must use the bag if the filters clean ? Doesn't it lose suction once the bag starts getting clogged? I really don't think festool have made it easy when trying to choose a vac !

Well this hoover was connected to a cyclone which never really worked at collecting the fine dust.
The dust comes down the hose and this filter is the first one it reaches when it hits the collection container. Between this filter and the motor there's a multi finned extra filter that also gets full of dust. Im led to believe the filter in the pic should stop it getting to the cartridge but it doesn't. Perhaps it's cause the dust is so fine that it squeezes through the holes. 95% of the dust is from orbital and belt sander (120 grit) so it's fairly superfine stuff.

Coley

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[Ed Bray]

If you have purchased an Festool AC Vacuum, this is designed specifically for fine dust particularly that from sanding plaster or similar materials.

All Festool Vacuums are designed to use the dust bag (whether it be the paper type or the long life type) in normal use. Failure to use the dust bag in your vacuum when using it for anything other than liquids will both destroy your machine and can invalidate your warranty. The only time you do not use a dust bag is when using the vac for liquids.

The Auto clean function (that popping noise you hear in use) is the dust bag being collapsed inside the machine. This has the dual effect of both compacting the dust inside the dust bag and also vibrating it away from the walls of the dust bag to ensure that suction levels remain high.

As to you using a Cyclone for fine dust extraction in the path of a vacuum, this works the opposite way. The fine dust is never heavy enough to 'fall out' of the airflow into your drop box and is always sucked up to the filter or bag at the end of the vacuum. What does happen is as the flow of air drops down the cyclone the larger (and heavier) pieces become too heavy for the air flow at that point and then drop into your receiving receptacle. If the material is very fine, it never becomes heavier than the air flow will support and so can never drop out into the receiving receptacle.

I hope this helps, and please, put your dust bag into the machine.

 

[ColeyS1]

Thanks Ed for the explanation. So to clarify, fine dust isn't heavy enough to collect in a cyclone, so cyclones only really deal with the big chips- from routers and planers ?
I've ordered the 36m ac version http://mobile.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/F ... 0Extractor
So do you think the ac function is worthwhile cause it's mainly used for fine sanding dust ? I've been trying to get my head around the filter situation for hours. I can't make sense of it.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-main-filter-hepa-hf-ct-26-36 this looks like the same filter my mate has in his ac 26l version but it says it not suitable for ac in the description. Do ac extractors use a different filter ?(not hepa)years to come I'm sure everything will be crystal clear, at the moment it's as clear as mud
Thanks for your help

Coley

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[Ed Bray]

The CTM36AC would be a poor choice for a woodworking vac, it is designed for use when sanding plaster, as are all of the Auto Clean Festool Vacs. If you are planning on using it in a mobile fashion you may find the CT36 too big, if using in a shop, not so. Price wise you would be better off with a CTM36 and a long life bag and forget about the AC type unless you are planning to go into drywall or plaster sanding.

The AC versions have a different filter that allows the machine to blow-back which would destroy the standard HEPA filter, their filter is also HEPA but much more expensive.

The designation after the CT gives the minimum particle size it will allow through:

CT-L <1.0 mg/m3
CT-M <0.1mg/m3

 

[ColeyS1]

Bugger ! It won't be leaving the workshop so thought the extra size would work to my advantage. Would the autoclean function not ensure that its running the most efficient way it can at all times ? That's how I interpreted it :?
So I've ordered the right class vac (m) I guess I still need to use the bags if using the ac function? The last post on this thread - http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-t ... he-ct36-e/ suggests not :? Thanks for your patience, I'm not trying to be awkward just trying to get my head around using it properly. I never knew an extractor could be so confuddling

Thanks
Coley
Edit- I've just signed up to FOG and it days I've got 33 thousand unread posts to get through
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