Fences and guides for Startrite 352 bandsaw

[cumbrian]

I recently bought an old Startrite 352 BS which I'm using to cut my teeth - not literally, you understand.

An obvious first "upgrade" is going to be a decent blade or two, so many thanks for those who've already provided links and info on blades. Thanks also for the tracking thread.

However, I could do with advice on guides and fences. The existing block guides and thrust rods are in a fairly manky state, and I'm not convinced that dressing with a file (as I've seen posted somewhere) is going to sort them, or if I'm capable of doing it accurately. So before I lash out over a hundred quid for a new set, should I be looking at any alternatives? From what I've already read it seems that the blocks are as good as/better than rollers, and I can see that adjusting the block guides can be straightforward to those who are doing it often and have picked up the knack, but I suspect I'd prefer an easier adjustment method. I've seen some wincingly expensive guides (can't find them at the moment, but something like GL??) which would run close to £200 for the set, and some from Axminster at somewhere around the thirty quid mark, which makes me question whether they'd be any good. So is there anything else worth a look at around the £100 mark - and will they fit - or is my best course to simply stick with the standard items?

Fences next - The saw doesn't have a mitre guide, which I'd like to get. Can anyone tell me what I need to look for - is the slot standard (if there is a standard!) and any particular recommendations?
Finally a rip fence. The fence on the saw is certainly sturdy if crude, but I'd like to get something to run the full width of the table and with a decent adjustment mechanism. Again any advice on what I should be looking for would be gratefully received.

 

[dickm]

I'm sure others will be able to give more authoritative reply than I can, but I wonder if you need to replace the guides unless they are <really> bad. How "manky" is manky? The guides on my 352 are worn so that the faces are slightly curved in the vertical plane, but it cuts brilliantly - in a different league from the Kity I used to have. Provided the faces are parallel to the blade in the horizontal plane, it seems fine.
Both the rip fence and mitre fence I use are "lashups" - the rip fence is homemade, the mitre fence is a spare that I had for the Kity, fitted with a new guide bar made from mild steel strip.
I'm not sure it's worth fitting very expensive fences to a bandsaw, even one as good as the 352, because so much depends on the blade. Better to rely on ears and eyes?

 

[Scrit]

Hi Cumbrian

You're right, if you go to Record Power, the owners of the Startrite brand and buy replacement guides they'll charge you about £50 or so per pair + VAT (I was quoted £54/pair 2+ years ago....), so the obvious solution is to find a small engineering shop and have them face-off the blocks on a milling or grinding machine. They will mill/grind readily because they're made from mehanite - a form of iron (?). I did this when mine were due for replacement a few years ago - cost me somewhete between £15 and £20 and they'll now do another 20 years. I reckon that you'd be able to face off 5 to 10 times before needing to replace. An engineering shop might also be able to provide replacement thrust rods or face-off the end of yours at a fraction of the cost of new.

I wouldn't replace the standard guides, though, they're simple, durable, accurate and don't go wrong - they can take a bit of getting used to, but if you are having problems why not try folding a piece of paper round the blade, then butting up the blocks and tightening. Slacken one off slightly to remove the paper then retighten. Repeat for the bottom then set the thrusts so that they are just behind the blade. Works for me.

I agree with Dick, I wouldn't bother with a mitre fence on a bandsaw on the grounds that bandsaws aren't that accurate, but if you do want one the main thing would be to get a piece of flat steel strip to fit the groove and drill/tap that to fit on whatever guide you decide on. The Startrite mitre fence isn't much to write home about, so an aftermarket has got to be better (and probably cheaper, too)

The rip fence, too, isn't what you call high tech, but the question is what are you going to use the saw for? If it's for lots of curved parts then the rip fence isn't an issue. If it's for resawing you're better making up a high fence from a couple of pieces of plywood with some triangular strengthening fillets and clamping it onto the table with G-clamps. It will be more effective than the standard fence as it can easily be adjusted to compensate for blade drift.

Scrit

 

[cumbrian]

Gents

Thanks for the replies.
Thanks for the tip on getting the guides refaced - some are badly grooved, so I'm going to have to see if I can guess (sorry - accurately measure and calculate) the minimum thickness. Maybe I can at least get a good pair of guides that way, and only have to buy two (or one or none if I'm really lucky). One thrust rod has lost the hardened tip, so I suspect I'll have to buy a replacement for that.
Thanks for the suggestions re the fences. Making up a high-backed fence seems like a good idea, maybe combined with a couple of stick-on measure tapes on the table to make setting up a bit easier. See what you mean about drift, now that I've read up a bit - currently learning a lot in a short time!

 

[Scrit]

Frankly I wouldn't even bother with the tapes. Just make a your first cuts into a scrap piece then tap the fence over to adjust it. Most materials going through the bandsaw will be subject to subsequent dimensioning, be it planing, thicknessing or even just sanding, so I doubt that super accuracy is called for that much. The main exceptions might be veneer sawing or tenoning, but even then a 'tap or nudge' approach and the use of scrap pieces to check the cut won't be any slower than measuring as minor adjustments will always be required to get it spot on

Scrit

 

[dickm]

I{snip]I'd like to get something to run the full width of the table and with a decent adjustment mechanism. Again any advice on what I should be looking for would be gratefully received.

By "full width", I assume you mean side to side, not front-to-back? Just that I wouldn't recommend having a rip fence that extends more than a centimetre or so behind the blade, because almost inevitably the timber has to be slanted to allow for the blade not cutting exactly parallel to the fence. Having a long fence makes this more difficult.
I have wondered about making what is in effect a "point fence", which just keeps the cut a precise distance from the fence, but does not force the timber to run exactly at right angles to the front of the table. Has anyone done this - I think I remember seeing a very sophisticated version of this idea using a stack of roller bearings in a mag somewhere?

 

[Scrit]

Well it's front to back of the table in the direction of sawing, i.e. the fence should be parallel with the blade (and just where is the "front" of a bandsaw?). I've made through fences then added a thin "slab" on the infeed side so that they act like a short rip fence on a table saw - and for the same reason, to accommodate tension release. The reason for going full width of the table is to allow the fence to be clamped by G-cramps. If your fence isn't rigidly fixed to the rip fence bar it is easy to accommodate blade drift (the penomenon you refer to in "the timber has to be slanted to allow for the blade not cutting exactly parallel to the fence") The roller fence you refer to is similar to those used on power feeders like this:

I've found point fences are useful if you can mark the timber for the cut, but that they won't work for veneer sawing where repeatibility on thin cuts (1mm) is all but impossible to achieve.

Scrit

 

[dickm]

[snip] slanted to allow for the blade not cutting exactly parallel to the fence"[/i]) The roller fence you refer to is similar to those used on power feeders like this:

I've found point fences are useful if you can mark the timber for the cut, but that they won't work for veneer sawing where repeatibility on thin cuts (1mm) is all but impossible to achieve.

Scrit

Interesting - I'd not tried my (crude) point fence for very thin stuff, but had assumed it would work.
By a roller fence, I wasn't meaning quite what you illustrated, but in effect a point fence made of a stack of roller bearings one above the other.

 

[Scrit]

Interesting - I'd not tried my (crude) point fence for very thin stuff, but had assumed it would work.

The problem is that if you are like me keeping it dead on liner when curring a 1mm thick veneer is more than you can manage - opr maybe I'm just getting old... :wink:

Scrit