Entry-to-mid-level table saw which can support dado bits?

[phillamb168]

Hi everybody,

I've seen a few posts talking about how great the Axminster table saw (ref AW10BSB2) is for entry to midlevel experience. But can it support dado bits? This is the one 'special' feature that I feel I would need for my joinery work. I can't tell from the Axminster site if the saw would support it or not. Here's an example of a dado bit, I'm not sure if the word is the same in English english or not. As I can't post links, just do a search on Amazon (US version) for Freud SD508 Super 8 Inch stack.

 

[Jelly]

All table saws sold in the UK must be braked to comply with the relevant safety standards... Braked saws and dado sets are a thorougly unsafe combination, the dado set has enough momentum that it can break free under braking load!

If you want or need a Dado set, I reccomend you to look to get a Radial Arm Saw with a carriage return, as these are pretty much the only saws which can avoid the breaking requirements by returning the blade to a safe "home" position to spin down.

 

[Chems]

You can fit a dado head to that saw. However I'm not sure how straight forward it is. 30mm dado sets are common. But I believe that the shaft is slightly tapered and possibly a little to short. Someone has done it on the SIP clone of the Axminster saw using some spacers and shims.

One saw that can certainly do I know of is the Xcalibur 10" table saw:

http://woodfordwm.co.uk/acatalog/Table_Saws1.html

Has the option for a dado head on there as well.

 

[phillamb168]

All table saws sold in the UK must be braked to comply with the relevant safety standards... Braked saws and dado sets are a thorougly unsafe combination, the dado set has enough momentum that it can break free under braking load!

If you want or need a Dado set, I reccomend you to look to get a Radial Arm Saw with a carriage return, as these are pretty much the only saws which can avoid the breaking requirements by returning the blade to a safe "home" position to spin down.

Yikes, that sounds like the formula for a Bad Day. I imagine the dado blades spinning out like ninja throwing stars...

I've seen some people cut dados with multiple passes through a table saw, I suppose that would work? Save some money anyway.

Is that axminster saw I mentioned above solid enough? Cast iron table or otherwise? I'm open to other suggestions for brand/etc - I would just prefer not to spend more than 1200 eur/gbp/usd.

 

[Jelly]

All table saws sold in the UK must be braked to comply with the relevant safety standards... Braked saws and dado sets are a thorougly unsafe combination, the dado set has enough momentum that it can break free under braking load!

If you want or need a Dado set, I reccomend you to look to get a Radial Arm Saw with a carriage return, as these are pretty much the only saws which can avoid the breaking requirements by returning the blade to a safe "home" position to spin down.

Yikes, that sounds like the formula for a Bad Day. I imagine the dado blades spinning out like ninja throwing stars...

I've seen some people cut dados with multiple passes through a table saw, I suppose that would work? Save some money anyway.

Is that axminster saw I mentioned above solid enough? Cast iron table or otherwise? I'm open to other suggestions for brand/etc - I would just prefer not to spend more than 1200 eur/gbp/usd.

Actually, I'm not sure if it's all saws (I *think* it is) or just ones to be used in a workplace (due to PUWER98 regs), if it is only ones to be fitted in a workplace, then provided you check with the manufacturer/their agent that it isn't braked then you'll be OK.

I don't use a tablesaw in my own shop, so my only real contact with them has been when I've had training at work; I recall them being pretty emphatic not putting dado heads or moulding cutter blocks on braked saws.

 

[beech1948]

I believe that all EU saws have to have a short arbour to prevent the use of dado blades.

Having said that this only applies to a business or a workshop with a minimum of two people working there so a single person could use a dado blade.

In the UK and EU safety is paramount unlike the US where there is a macho attitude to dado blades.

I would recommend some courses of action to you.

1) ask yourself why you want a dado blade. If its because of USA videos and Youtube then move to Q2
2) How else can you cut a dado safely. With a router, with a RAS, with a marking knife-handsaw and wood fence - chisel-and quiet.

My point is that it is possible to create a dado without the use of a table saw and to do it efficiently.

Al

 

[Sawyer]

Dado heads on table saws are not legal in the EU and machines are therefore sold only with short arbors. I second the good advice of others about alternative methods of cutting dados.

 

[RogerP]

There's a lot of disinformation flying about on the subject of dado blades. I suggest reading through this http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.uk/Tools/HealthandSafety/tabid/418/language/en-US/Default.aspx to start with.

 

[RogerBoyle]

There's a lot of disinformation flying about on the subject of dado blades. I suggest reading through this http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.uk/Tools/HealthandSafety/tabid/418/language/en-US/Default.aspx to start with.

Well said

There is nothing wrong with using a dado blade When it is fitted in the correct Saw
As Jelly has pointed out though Its really not advisable to use one on a table saw that has the braking function.

I really cannot understand why people (mainly on this forum LOL) seem to get so worked up about them
They are no more dangerous than any other tool used in the work shop if used correctly....No guard dont use it LOL

If you have a load of cuts to make then yes they are a very good tool as the time saved can be considerable
But for just the occasional cut then you will find its much quicker with a router and jig

Roger

 

[Jake]

There is nothing wrong with using a dado blade When it is fitted in the correct Saw
As Jelly has pointed out though Its really not advisable to use one on a table saw that has the braking function.

On the other hand, it is really not advisable to use a table saw without a brake, so that's a bit of a loop. I'm not sure this is the main reason they are deprecated though.

I really cannot understand why people (mainly on this forum LOL) seem to get so worked up about them
They are no more dangerous than any other tool used in the work shop if used correctly....No guard dont use it LOL

The main reason I think they are deprecated is that unlike all other tooling with a similar size potential bite, they aren't (usually) limited tooling. If you saw your fingers off nice and cleanly on the table saw, you have a reasonable chance of having some use recovered after having them sewn back on. Much less chance of that with a dado head, which will pull the fingers in and mangle a big section of them.

 

[Jelly]

There is nothing wrong with using a dado blade When it is fitted in the correct Saw
As Jelly has pointed out though Its really not advisable to use one on a table saw that has the braking function.

On the other hand, it is really not advisable to use a table saw without a brake, so that's a bit of a loop. I'm not sure this is the main reason they are deprecated though.

I really cannot understand why people (mainly on this forum LOL) seem to get so worked up about them
They are no more dangerous than any other tool used in the work shop if used correctly....No guard dont use it LOL

The main reason I think they are deprecated is that unlike all other tooling with a similar size potential bite, they aren't (usually) limited tooling. If you saw your fingers off nice and cleanly on the table saw, you have a reasonable chance of having some use recovered after having them sewn back on. Much less chance of that with a dado head, which will pull the fingers in and mangle a big section of them.

Chip limited dado heads are available... and like all chip limitation tooling, are highly reccomended, as are chip limited (aka: anti kick) sawblades for manually fed resawing; It's not just the risk of your hands being pulled in, but the force that it can exert on the timber if it bites off more than it can chew.

Increased kickback force is IMO one of the reasons that dado heads are better used in an RAS, if you feed it too fast you get a bit of a fright and bruised knuckles on your control hand, on the TS you've got a board, mitre fence or even sliding carriage flying into your abdomen!

 

[misterfish]

As you can see the subject of dado sets causes a lot of discussion. There are very few new table saws that will take a dado set - the Xcalibur range are the only ones that immediately spring to mind http://woodfordwm.co.uk/acatalog/Table_Saws1.html

Apart from this you would need to be looking at older (industrially rated) machinery designed to be able to take a dado set. There were some small benchtop saws sold some years ago that had a longer arbor but due to their lightweight construction I would not consider safe - I remember my father-in-law had such a machine (branded as Clarke) but he only used it with a standard blade.

I use a dado set with my old Wadkin saw - but with great care and suitable guarding.

Misterfish

 

[Harbo]

The Deft (if it ever reappears?) and it's similar clones will take a Dado set.

Rod

 

[phillamb168]

To answer the youtube question, yes, indeed, I was thinking that the 'easiest' way to cut them was to use a dado on the saw.

I admit to being sometimes confused (read: incredibly annoyed) by the abundance of safety regulations in Europe.

So I guess the best way would be to cut small slices out where the dado should go and then chisel out?

 

[RogerBoyle]

There is nothing wrong with using a dado blade When it is fitted in the correct Saw
As Jelly has pointed out though Its really not advisable to use one on a table saw that has the braking function.

On the other hand, it is really not advisable to use a table saw without a brake, so that's a bit of a loop. I'm not sure this is the main reason they are deprecated though.

I really cannot understand why people (mainly on this forum LOL) seem to get so worked up about them
They are no more dangerous than any other tool used in the work shop if used correctly....No guard dont use it LOL

The main reason I think they are deprecated is that unlike all other tooling with a similar size potential bite, they aren't (usually) limited tooling. If you saw your fingers off nice and cleanly on the table saw, you have a reasonable chance of having some use recovered after having them sewn back on. Much less chance of that with a dado head, which will pull the fingers in and mangle a big section of them.

I understand where you are coming from but fingers will be safe if there is proper guarding used. regardless if its a blade or head cutter so rather a moot point.

I have yet to hear of any injury from kickback using a tablesaw and dado head properly. Not saying it hasn't happened but I would be interested in looking at reports where this has happened.and i dont mean ' my mate has a mate that' type of reports lol

My reasons for thinking that they are not liked are actually quite simple
1. most folks have seen them being used on TV irresponsibly and quite rightly decided that it was wrong to use them
2. a dado head in a table saw just sounds so different to a single blade and makes them uneasy
3. the majority of saws in this country will not be suitable for them

Back to the OP

The easiest way is with a router and jig for small amounts
the quietest way is using hand tools but the slowest in general
the most expensive way is a dado head cutter in a machine but for cutting batches (read Lots) then by far the quickest way

Setting up a Dado head can be a time consuming and frustrating exercise LOL

Roger

 

[jasonB]

You could look at the Scheppach 2500 series saw as they make a groover to fit that which will do a similar job to a dado head. If you do go down that route then best to also get the SUVA style overhead gaurd.

Hammer also offer a similar groover but over your price.

J

 

[Steve Maskery]

When I made my TS DVDs I had a lot of help from the local HSE. In a nutshell:
Dado heads are not illegal per se. But if they cause the run-down time to exceed 10seconds, then their use is illegal in a commercial workplace. Same goes for guarding. If you have to use the machine unguarded then their use is illegal, even though the device itself is not.
On a biggish saw like my Excalibur, the increased mass of the blade is only a small part of the total rotating mass, and so my saw still stops in around 6 seconds, even when fully stacked. But on smaller saws, with lighter motors, it ain't necessarily so. So the short arbours are a deterrent.
As has been said, it's only worth it for production runs anyway. The are a pain to set up, shim properly, guard, then put back as it was before. You can have the job done in half the time with a simple jig and a router. No set up at all, save clamping it in the right place.
Dado heads produce excellent grooves, but at a price, and I don't just mean money.
If you do decide to go the TS route then the Freud Safety Dado is excellent. It's what I have.
HTH
Steve

 

[phillamb168]

Thanks guys!