Effective drilling in masonry - new drill?

[pooka]

Firstly, hopefully this is a relevant topic for this forum. While attaching wooden shelves to a block-built internal wall recently I remembered my dread of trying to drill accurate holes in masonry. The drill bit often wanders off my mark - sometimes this is not a big problem but these shelves have 4 pre-drilled holes and if each hole in the wall is even just a little bit out then fixing the shelf becomes a real pain (and less stable too). It worked out this time, but only just.

The drill I am using is a corded 8yr-old Skil 650W, and the bits that I am using (6mm and 8mm) are, I believe, of reasonable quality. I generally turn off the hammer action while drilling through the plaster skim layer, and when I hit the block layer I stop the drill, turn the hammer action on and put the drill on the higher of its 2 speeds. But the bit seems to have trouble getting a start in the block layer so it often ends up going in at the wrong angle or wandering off centre (and widening the hole in the plaster in the process).

I'm not sure whether the problem is that the drill is under-powered (or just poor quality maybe), that the drill bit isn't good/sharp enough, that I am not controlling the drill properly, or that I am using the wrong technique. Or maybe it's all four! I've considered buying a new (corded) drill with an SDS chuck in the hope that this will help, but I'd be grateful for any advice on whether the drill itself is likely to be playing a large part in the problem.

 

[Ironballs]

650W sounds a bit low on power to me, for masonry drilling bigger is always better

 

[Paul Chapman]

In my experience, SDS drills and bits are significantly better than hammer drills and ordinary masonry bits, particularly when drilling really hard stuff like concrete lintels. I bought one many years ago and always use it for drilling masonry.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Raggy]

Make sure you got a decent bit it makes all the difference

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Get a SDS drill it makes things so much easer, I have drilled loads of holes in walls concrete etc and an SDS drill makes hammer drill look useless.

You will get some wandering in breeze block and its made up of hard bits with gaps in so the drill can get deflected, if you mark a cross on the wall bigger than the hole you an see any wandering and correct it.

Pete

 

[andycktm]

I use an old B&D corded drill for indoor in breeze,get it started then plenty
of speed in one go no hammer action needed.Maybe in your case stopping/starting at the block is the case of your drift.
Firm grip is needed,concrete is a different case.

 

[danmcl]

SDS gets my vote, I had to drill 20 odd 8 mm holes in a block wall at a relatives house, my reasonably beefy cordless took me 15 min to drill one hole.
I went home, fed the dogs, picked up my SDS, dug out the bit from the back of the tiny shed, drove back and drilled the other 19 in 45min, and I live 15 min away.

The difference is shocking! and if you get one with roto-stop (most have them now) you get a lightweight breaker as well!

I have had 2 £40 specials from B&Q and they are both still going strong.

 

[Mr Ed]

SDS every time - I have had the cheapest deWalt SDS for years and it seems to just keep going.

Cheers, Ed

 

[kenf]

Pooka,
I keep a short length of batten with my drill, with a hole near one end.
My lovely assistant holds the batten tight against the wall over the disignated point and I drill without any wander. If in a finshed area the same lovely assistant holds the vacuum nozzle immediately below the drilling point to collect any dust. No wander, no mess.

Invest in a new drill bit and keep the drill on hammer to carry out the procedure in one quick operation.

 

[Peter T]

I'd go with SDS every time.

I've got the De Walt one with the roto-stop and this is great for drilling and also good for taking tiles of the kitchen walls!!

 

[ProShop]

Pooka, Skil used to make decent drills. I suspect that the two ribbed friction plates that made the old style hammer drills work (pre SDS) have worn considerably over timeand consequently there is very little vibrating hammer action going on.

Treat yourselve to a SDS they are really a revelation in hammer action. They actually have a piston inside giving a true hammer action rather than as I described above. You'll wonder how you managed before, they give a very good clean accurate hole in a fraction of the time with very little pressure required from the user. Buy a SDS chuck adaptor and you have a conventional drill as well.

Screwfix were selling a very good Bosch from their Pro range for around the £60 mark recently, register it online and get a 3 year warranty.

 

[Shultzy]

In order to drill a clean hole with a masonry drill one has to understand the difference between it and a twist drill. The twist drill has a cutting action where the masonry drill has a scraping action. I was told many years ago that a slow speed was best for masonry drills, which is why I use a hand drill. This is usually good enough for all but compressed concrete.

 

[matt]

SDS gets my vote (I have a Makita - can't fault it).

Depending on the amount of wandering I find it is usually best to point the drill in the direction of the travel (i.e. drill OFF 90 degrees). This should result in a hole of the correct size for the plug/screw albeit slightly off angle. (Where you have a visible screw head (or capped) - such as fixing plain mirror - then you need dead on 90 degrees for a good finish).

 

[Trumpet]

SDS drills are great, but sometimes cause problems breaking up friable brick/blockwork.

For general use and plugs Bosch multiconstruction bits (much sharper than those rubbish winged masontry bits) have been great for me with an 18v cordless - for example something like battening you can drill through the wood first and then straight into the wall in one go (apart from switching from non hammer to hammer) no alignment problems! They don't seem to wander about as much when you are making a start on the hole either.

 

[pooka]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate all of the advice and suggestions, some of which confirmed my suspicions about my current drill and many of which give me food for thought.

I tried out my drill again today specifically to test the hammer action, and although I can't actually recall how noticeable the hammer action was when the drill was new it certainly isn't very noticeable now. So, I've decided to go ahead and treat myself to a new drill. I already have several cordless drills (none of them with hammer action) which cover all of my usual drilling needs in wood so as with my current hammer drill this new drill will be exclusively for masonry. A chiseling option could be handy too so I have focused on drills that have that feature.

Of the many options available, I've narrowed it down to the following, all of which are roughly in the same range in terms of price and/or power and features:

DeWalt D25003K SDS+ - 650W, Max impact 2.3J, £89.99 (was £149.99)

Makita HR2470T 3 Function SDS+ - 780W, Max impact 2.7J, £149.95

Bosch GBH 2-26 DRE 3 Function SDS+ - 800W, Max impact 3J, £129.96

Hitachi DH24PC3 SDS+ - 800W, Max impact 3.2J, £119.99

If anyone has experience with any of those drills, or views on them generally, I'd be grateful for any feedback.

 

[pooka]

I should say here that my reason for opting for a corded drill is mainly cost. I imagine that a decent cordless hammer drill will cost a lot more than a comparable corded version. The convenience of a cordless would be great though so if anyone can suggest a good cordless option I'd be interested. In terms of budget I'd stretch to around £200 for a drill thats likely to last quite a while.

The most impressive drilling that I've seen done in masonry was by a plumber using a cordless 24V Bosch. It seemed to go through one of my supporting block-work walls as if it were butter (same walls as my corded drill struggles with). Apparently it cost about €800 (about £500 or so) at the time. The plumber swore by it, saying he'd buy a replacement instantly if the drill bit the dust, despite the cost.

 

[Karl]

Pooka

I have the Hitachi SDS you list - great drill. Bags of power.

It hardly gets used. 95% of my drilling is done with a little 600w AEG percussion drill.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Trumpet]

DeWalt D25003K SDS+ - 650W, Max impact 2.3J, £89.99 (was £149.99)
Makita HR2470T 3 Function SDS+ - 780W, Max impact 2.7J, £149.95
Bosch GBH 2-26 DRE 3 Function SDS+ - 800W, Max impact 3J, £129.96
Hitachi DH24PC3 SDS+ - 800W, Max impact 3.2J, £119.99

Pooka,

Had the Hitachi, broke it within weeks, I bought it because of its high power/impact rating, imho the internals are nowhere near up to the job - the hammer action tube is made of very thin aluminium and the cam broke both the wings off of it. Avoid like the plague as the design looks highly suspect looking at the fracture mind you I've not had to take others apart to see what has failed in them.

Bought a bosh D-handled SDS as a replacement and no problems and doubt there will be. I've got loads of Dewalt 18V gear and like it but wouldn't buy corded dewalt SDS. Makita should be rugged.

If you want a real all-rounder look for a deal on one of the Bosch DFR (or similar models) that have a click in normal chuck for large wood bits/holesaws/other non-SDS stuff (without having to buy and slot in another SDS chuck adapter into the SDS chuck) . Oh and definitely go for 3 mode, bound to want rotary stop to chisel something at some stage and you will be kicking yourself if you have to go and buy another drill just to do that.

Here's the DFR
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Bosc ... 238148.htm

Looks like 146 is about the best price.

http://www.ps-tools.com/catalog/product ... ts_id/3398

 

[pooka]

Thanks a lot karl and Trumpet, that info is a great help. The Bosch looks looks like my best bet, and in particular the DFR model looks like the most versatile option. And that is a good price too - thanks Trumpet, I'm very grateful.

 

[johnjin]

Sds is the way to go for masonry drilling but even then they can still wander off a little. If it still wanders a little far, drill again with an oversize drill and then knock in a wood plug. You can then screw in exactly in position.

Hope this helps

John