dying mdf black

[condeesteso]

I may need to dye some mdf black. I've looked at Hannants various dyes/stains but suspect they are intended to leave some hint of grain (they are often called 'ebony' or 'black ash'... I just want very black). Have also checked Wood Finishes Direct - same issue. I don't want paint of any kind as I need this to penetrate but be a really dense colour. Any tips and ideas most appreciated, thank you all.

 

[Mar_mite]

You can get black mdf. I remember seeing it on a job once. Looked good. Just googled it and found this.. http://www.winwood-products.com/eng/tim ... ed-mdf.htm

 

[Nippychippy]

That stuff is so col I wonder what the prices is for 18mm sheets it could come in handy cheers for the link

 

[marcros]

I don't think you will be able to dye it successfully. I think at best you will get muddy grey. I think you will need pigment but thoroughly mixed in with the material which you won't get once it has been made.

You could try something like black shellac but it sounds like exactly what you don't want to achieve. Otherwise, buy the black stuff or change the material.

 

[Woodmonkey]

I have used the black chestnut spirit stain (on real wood not MDF) and it is very black, could try that?

 

[Myfordman]

I have used the black chestnut spirit stain (on real wood not MDF) and it is very black, could try that?

Tudor oak spirit stain is pretty black. Another approach might be to thin some indian ink with alcohol/meths etc and try that.

 

[rileytoolworks]

Hello Douglas. I hope you're well.
Give you local Morrells a ring.
We use some dark Wenge stain at work, and it turns everything black.
Are you using MRMDF? If not, I suggest you give it a try. It is a work apart from the rubbish you get from the sheds.

Talk soon.
Adam.

 

[hansonread]

Your best bet is to use a product called Valcromat. It comes in black as well as 7 other colours. It's a solid colour throughout and an amazing material to work with. Technically not MDF but still looms and works in exactly the same way. It comes in funny sizes 8mm being the thinnest then 13mm then 19mm being the thickest. We buy it in pallet rates but I'm pretty sure a single sheet of 19mm comes in at about 75 quid plus vat.

A word of warning, order enough from the start as there can be a colour batching issue if ordered at separate times. This also can be true when using different thicknesses so often draw bottoms and carcass backs can be slightly different colours. Not a problem as long as you know it from the start!

 

[RobinBHM]

Thats very interesting, I'd not heard of Valcromat before -I see James Latham is stocking it. They describe as somewhere between mdf and a solid surface material.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I may need to dye some mdf black.

Use black colour fast dye, such as that supplied by Morrell's. It's spirit based dye. You can apply it with a spray gun building up the depth of colour. Then add some of the dye to the polish applied over the top, all assuming you're going the spray finish route.

Otherwise, you might go the black MDF route as suggested by Mar_mite. Slainte.

 

[ColeyS1]

I used the black Morrells stain and it does make things very black. After putting it on mdf then applying a lacquer it looked almost black paint like. Look closely enough and it did show the mdf fibres

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[baldpate]

I've found that oil-based (naptha) stains (I use Mylands/Fiddes) give much better penetration and depth of colour on MDF than do spirit-based dyes. I used several coats of dark oak Mylands naptha stain on some MDF winding sticks, and the result was a very solid black (definitely not simply a dark brown, although not quite 'ebony' black). So if you can get such a stain in black (Fiddes dont 'seem to do it) I think that would do it.

A word of caution though - even though this stain gives a very deep and even colour, when you look very closely you can still see some flecking, where some of the MDF particles have taken up the stain less well than the majority of the material. That just the nature of MDF, I guess, and there's no disguising it with a dye stain. You would need a pigment cover (paint, effectively) to completely disguise MDF.

 

[condeesteso]

Good day all! Thanks for all the help. I had seen a sample of the black mdf at Simon's (Oryx Design) - another very helpful member of this forum. The actual sample I saw was more charcoal although it may become more black with a finish on it.
I need to investigate Valcromat, will do - I suspect Lathams may have it.
I'm not a regular with mdf so not familiar with mrmdf Adam, again will investigate and guess Lathams, maybe some others neaby may have it. The fact it is moisture resistant seems it would be harder to stain though?? Apparently it has a moisture resistant resin in it.
There's some consensus re Morrels - I shall call them today.
Points noted Baldplate - I think slight flecking would be acceptable provided the overall look is very black, I accept the limits of the material.
What I like about a stain is I can add coats - if I invest in coloured stock and it isn't quite there I could end up staining as well.
So onto Morrells and see what they think - that's my start point. I was planning a Morrelss pre-cat finish anyway (semi-matt). I plan to use this stuff in combo with some yew, I do like a bit of black and tan together.
Many thanks for all the help, hi to Adam, Mark and everyone else I know. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Richard S]

Hi Douglas

I once received a delivery of oak veneered panels that had a piece of black mdf used as a cover sheet. I remember because it had badly marked the oak sheet it was supposed to correct. I kept the sheet and used the odd piece now and again it was definitely black and not charcoal grey. Unfortunately I skipped what was left of the sheet when I moved out of that workshop earlier in the year, although it was a damaged sheet hence the use as a cover sheet. I obviously didn't pay for it so can't comment on cost but it came from Eastern Hardwoods in Harlow (not a firm I would wholeheartedly recommend usually) but if they can supply what you need it may be worth a call. From recollection I would say that this stuff is easy to damage in transit / storage, this one had a lot of surface marks on it. They may have a sample they could send you, or possibly another damaged sheet ( if you don't need a full one), might be worth a call. It was about eighteen months ago so still fairly recent history. Hope this helps.

Richard

 

[condeesteso]

thanks Richard, I shall investigate that also - they are a bit off my patch but worth a try. I'll be needing around 6 sheets so may deliver. Need to get a pace on here but if they could get sample out quickly maybe worth a try. Quite a few options to persue now - excellent work, gang =D>

 

[marcros]

have you used Morrels before, Douglas? Something rings a bell with me about needing a huge minimum order. I hope that I am wrong- quite probably am.

 

[Richard S]

Eastern Hardwoods deliver to me in Northampton so assume Kent should be within their area. Try speaking to Rich Collinson if you call, if you get him on a good day he can be quite helpful.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I should perhaps have put up an example or two of the results possible using the techniques I suggested. In the first, the table below, the black supporting underframe is poplar, and the wood is meant to peek through. In other words the idea was not to completely hide the wood, but to partially disguise it. In this case the base colour was hand applied black water dye followed up by spraying pre-cat tinted with spirit based black dye.

In the second example below, all the colour was achieved by spraying spirit based dye followed up with clear coats of pre-cat lacquer.

Finally, the sort of dyes I use are available at the link below, although Morrells call them stains, which they aren't really because there's no pigment in them. Typically, they cost about £9- £12 a litre if you buy in litres, cheaper per litre if you buy in larger container sizes. Slainte.
http://www.morrells.co.uk/products/wood/11

 

[condeesteso]

Thanks again all. Trip to Morrels - a litre of their spirit black and a few other bits while there. Mark - very helpful lot indeed - will be delivering in future at no charge, I asked about min order and he seemed casual/flexible, happy to deliver a 5L thinners for example.
SO, the spirit black is working, first coat soaks in very fast (mdf being a form of blotting paper, esp. the edges). Leave 10 mins and apply a second thinner coat (just brushed, not spraying that stuff!). I'm very happy with the result. I'd say in critical light the surface (flats, not edges) are very slightly flecked, only slight. The idea here always was to use very manmade with very organic, and I don't want to pretend the mdf is anything other than mdf. So very promising, need to leave a bit and then spray pre-cat (30%) and see what we get.
I did consider the pre-coloured but I cannot be certain how much I'll need, and I prefer to have some control so staining/dying appeals.
These pics are dull, sorry, bad light - the yew really lights up normally, just a wipe with thinned BLO and left a few days then buff to a sheen

Thanks for the pics SD, I like the controlled colouring of the poplar - I think that level of colour control is impressive. Reminds me I think now I do want to see a tiny hint of the mdf make-up on the surfaces. I have an early Matthew Hilton Antelope table, and he used mdf for the top, stained a dark 'walnut' but intentionally still mdf looking.
The client had better like this. More news later.