Drill presses again!

[Fergal]

I have an 18 year old Axminster pillar drill, I paid £125 for it five years ago. It came from a bespoke kitchen workshop. It's not the floor standing size but it's bigger than a benchtop one. I've had it about 5 years and I've drilled lots of holes in wood, plastic, brass, mild and stainless steel. I'm very happy with it.

By comparison, at my Men's Shed we have a brand new Sealey drill which was £260. It's absolute rubbish. The chuck has loads of runout and it will stall when using larger holesaws.

 

[OscarG]

On collecting an ebay purchase last year I met this lovely chap who had a wonderful workshop and was very happy to show me his ancient machines he'd collected restored, including a lathe that was as big as a truck!

He had this drill press, think it was circa 1940's. Made by Atlas.

To say it was well built, ha.. this drill, looked like a battleship that ate another battleship!

It was a 3 phase that via some clever little attached gizmo (wish I had made a note of ) had it converted to single phase. Switched it on, zero wobble. Wonderful wonderful machine.

Think he paid £100 for it or something silly!

So maybe you could add Atlas to your list.

 

[Deadeye]

https://heass.co.uk/product/meddings-compact-bench-drill-240v-1ph-10-compactb-6543210
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Dirty-Pro-Tool ... 2071258907

Spot the price difference. This shows why you can't even start to compare old Meddings, Fobcos etc. with new cheap machines.

I see they do price match, but perhaps that's not what they mean!

 

[Trevanion]

Spot the price difference. This shows why you can't even start to compare old Meddings, Fobcos etc. with new cheap machines.

I think you can compare them. You'd pick up a very clean, old floor standing Meddings for less than £300 very easily which will last many decades of hard use on top of the decades it's already done, and still be dead accurate!

That £60 drill off eBay within a few months of use will probably have had the handles fall off countless times, the chuck will be wobbling like a young man on a Saturday night and the motor will be screaming because they'll have used the cheapest bearings (if any at all) possible.

I know what I would go for without a doubt. It's better to have the tool that makes you enjoy working with it rather than the tool that makes you want to moan about it every time you use it, even if it comes at a slightly higher premium. Plus you'll never lose money on a good old one if you decide to sell it on.

 

[chaoticbob]

...
My own Rexxon (perhaps not a really really cheapo) will happily drill 10 mm (with a good drill) into steel plate with less than a tenth of a thou run out.
...

Have you slipped a decimal point there AES? Assuming you're talking imperial, a tenth of a thou is about 2.5 microns? If not I want your Rexxon and chuck! My Fobco Star has about 4 microns runout on the spindle taper, but with a chuck (Axminster 'precision' ) that goes up to about 60 microns on a 10mm test bar.
My own experience with drill presses: Clarke 'professional' 375W couldn't drive a 25mm Forstner though pine without stalling. Axminster Hobby series (500W) had enough grunt, but there was quite a bit (~0.2mm) of slop in the quill and about 0.1mm runout on the spindle. That actually worked OK - the slop in the quill allowed the drill bit to follow it's own path, just had to adjust myself to it drilling slightly oversize. Jet 17 floor standing - no significant quill slop or runout, but it rattles like a bag of spanners because of the poorly designed drive - it has a badly supported intermediate pulley which I guess is there so they can say '16 speeds' in ads. There is no need to have 16 speeds on a drill press IMO. Fobco Star - 250W, whisper quiet, 4 speeds (enough), accurate and doesn't break sweat with a 35mm Forstner though oak.
There really is a world of difference between the old, heavy machines and modern hobby offerings - well worth waiting for something to come up.
Rob.

 

[AES]

Yes sorry, a typo, that should have read a thou run out, not a tenth (not concentrating)! To me, for everything I do a thou (Imperial, just to be clear!) is fine. My drill press rattles a bit, bit it's only the "pressed tin" cover over the drive belts, and I agree that having (I think) 16 speeds is a bit OTT, AND changing speeds is a PITA, BUT at that price I couldn't sneeze at it.

I agree that looking for an old "British battleship" is a good idea, but here anyway, such stuff comes up rarely on the SH market.

I was really only trying to say that although I agree about cheapo tools in general terms, there ARE good buys to be had among cheapo tools if you're lucky/get a chance to try them out. When I bought my Rexxon they looked a bit surprised in the shop when I tried mine, but they had a power point nearby, the lead was long enough, and I (deliberately) had a 13 inch length of I think 8 mm silver steel in my pocket!

Edit for P.S. OTT, not a drill press but a combi belt/disc linisher I bought (Einhell) was a case of constant frustration. I was so poorly made with things like mis-aligned holes, etc, etc, that after months of fiddling on and off I gave up and apart from keeping a couple of bits of hardware & the motor I junked the rest of it. So I'm definitely not disagreeing with the principle of buying good old SH - IF you can find it.

 

[Beau]

I have an old Clark the table is not flat and the quill has a small amount of play when extended. Now for most jobs neither of things matter but on occasion when needing precision they can be a pain. One way to partly nullify the play in the quill is a good quality self guiding bits ie brad point drill in the small sizes and quality forstner bits for larger holes. I have had a look at other drill presses from time and the best was a Meddings. The Axminster ones I looked at all had some play in the quill regardless of price. I suspect there is variability in production and when the tooling is new they come out a good fit and when it's a bit worn they are less good but that's just a guess.

 

[OscarG]

...
My own Rexxon (perhaps not a really really cheapo) will happily drill 10 mm (with a good drill) into steel plate with less than a tenth of a thou run out.
...

Have you slipped a decimal point there AES? Assuming you're talking imperial, a tenth of a thou is about 2.5 microns? If not I want your Rexxon and chuck! My Fobco Star has about 4 microns runout on the spindle taper, but with a chuck (Axminster 'precision' ) that goes up to about 60 microns on a 10mm test bar.
My own experience with drill presses: Clarke 'professional' 375W couldn't drive a 25mm Forstner though pine without stalling. Axminster Hobby series (500W) had enough grunt, but there was quite a bit (~0.2mm) of slop in the quill and about 0.1mm runout on the spindle. That actually worked OK - the slop in the quill allowed the drill bit to follow it's own path, just had to adjust myself to it drilling slightly oversize. Jet 17 floor standing - no significant quill slop or runout, but it rattles like a bag of spanners because of the poorly designed drive - it has a badly supported intermediate pulley which I guess is there so they can say '16 speeds' in ads. There is no need to have 16 speeds on a drill press IMO. Fobco Star - 250W, whisper quiet, 4 speeds (enough), accurate and doesn't break sweat with a 35mm Forstner though oak.
There really is a world of difference between the old, heavy machines and modern hobby offerings - well worth waiting for something to come up.
Rob.

Just curious, what is it about a 250w Fobco that outperforms a 375w newer machine? Is it simply the weight? the bearings?

What is it that makes these old drills better?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Spot the price difference. This shows why you can't even start to compare old Meddings, Fobcos etc. with new cheap machines.

I think you can compare them. You'd pick up a very clean, old floor standing Meddings for less than £300 very easily which will last many decades of hard use on top of the decades it's already done, and still be dead accurate!

That £60 drill off eBay within a few months of use will probably have had the handles fall off countless times, the chuck will be wobbling like a young man on a Saturday night and the motor will be screaming because they'll have used the cheapest bearings (if any at all) possible.

I know what I would go for without a doubt. It's better to have the tool that makes you enjoy working with it rather than the tool that makes you want to moan about it every time you use it, even if it comes at a slightly higher premium. Plus you'll never lose money on a good old one if you decide to sell it on.

That was exactly my point - the old one will have been made to far, far different standards than the new cheap one.

 

[wallace]

I will of coarse do the shout out for wadkin They made a cracking boring and drilling machine called the LM which is floor standing and has a lovely table that cranks up and down. The only downside would be speed. It runs at 2800 rpm so no good for big holes in metal, unless you put a vfd on it.

 

[Lons]

If in doubt buy the cheapest.

One of the worst bits of advice I've seen! :roll:

If you only drill small dia holes in straight grained wood and keep your drill bits very sharp you'll probably get away with it, if you're lucky to get a reasonable example but you mostly get what you pay for and if your intention is to buy only once and not be disappointed get a decent one.

Most woodworkers will want to drill larger dia holes sometimes or maybe accurate holes down the length of something like a pen blank and how many of us don't occasionally need an accurate hole in metal?

A decent drill press is likely to be used more often than you think, a cheapo if you're not entirely happy with it will end up in a corner while you reach for the hand drill instead.

I've skipped 2 cheapos in the past, including a Nutool which was complete cr*p, bearings lasted 10 minutes and not worth repairing so I bought a s/h Meddings which is dead accurate, 1ph Brooks motor, solid as a brick sh**house and will last several lifetimes. Cost me £160 a few years ago and along with my Startrite bandsaw is one of the best investments I've made, worth more than I paid for it as I was offered £250 a few months ago.

 

[Jacob]

Well I've been using Nutool DP16 happily for a few years now.
It's a heavily built machine with 1/2HP motor and 12 speeds. Belt change not too bad.
Chuck 1 to 13mm and very precise - a 1mm bit stays dead central. Have used 50mm Forstner bit no prob.
no1 morse taper - means I can fit it in the tail stock of my lathe too, which I've just realised.
80 mm throw with adjustable stop etc. Quill adjustable to take up slack.
Tilting and rotating table etc
Everything works easily just as it should.
I accept it may not be good enough for regular or heavy metal work but for woodwork £50 it's a bargain!
PS I agree about good quality stuff when needed, depending on the work you do - I bought a Startrite 352 years ago and I reckon it paid for itself in a few days, compared to the little Burgess thing I was using before.

 

[Robbo3]

I bought a Startrite 352 years ago and I reckon it paid for itself in a few days, compared to the little Burgess thing I was using before.

So how old are you now?

 

[Jacob]

Ah no it was 347 years ago.

 

[Lons]

Well I've been using Nutool DP16 happily for a few years now.
It's a heavily built machine with 1/2HP motor and 12 speeds. Belt change not too bad.
Chuck 1 to 13mm and very precise - a 1mm bit stays dead central. Have used 50mm Forstner bit no prob.
no1 morse taper - means I can fit it in the tail stock of my lathe too, which I've just realised.
80 mm throw with adjustable stop etc. Quill adjustable to take up slack.
Tilting and rotating table etc
Everything works easily just as it should.
I accept it may not be good enough for regular or heavy metal work but for woodwork £50 it's a bargain!
PS I agree about good quality stuff when needed, depending on the work you do - I bought a Startrite 352 years ago and I reckon it paid for itself in a few days, compared to the little Burgess thing I was using before.

It was your phrase I commented on Jacob which but you've just qualified that with your Statrite statement.

Wasn't really disputing yours is fine for what you do but you've been lucky, I had exactly the same model and as I said it ended up in the skip and my brother had the same experience, doesn't appear we're the only ones either. Can't fault your reasoning about the cost as £50 isn't a lot to lose though it probably is to many people just why spoil the enjoyment and frustration of buying what's more likely than not a cr*p tool.

If I'm buying something I can see a regular use for over a few years then I buy better quality which almost always pays, if a one off job, very light or infrequent use then ok to buy throwaway stuff. Maybe Aldi is an exception as you can replace within 3 years under warranty.

 

[powertools]

If you are doing both woodworking and metalworking you need 2 pillar drills.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you are doing both woodworking and metalworking it's nice to have 2 pillar drills. FTFY

 

[Lons]

If you are doing both woodworking and metalworking you need 2 pillar drills.

Why?
Genuine question for someone who uses mine for both, metalwork is smaller percentage I rarely use cutting fluids and always vacuum up swarf.

 

[Jacob]

.... I had exactly the same model and as I said it ended up in the skip and my brother had the same experience, doesn't appear we're the only ones either. .......

Come to think it was faulty when I got it home - I think the vendor thought he'd pulled a fast one. But it was just a loose grub screw on the shaft which slackened off the belts, took 5 minutes to find and fix.
Have in the past nearly written things off as beyond repair only to find some simple easy fix - getting 2p pieces out of washing machine pumps and things like that. Doesn't do to give in too easily!

 

[shed9]

You will always find someone happy or conversely someone finding fault with every variant of drill press regardless of cost and / or origin.

My £0.02 worth;

1. Buy the best you can afford.
2. Buy old iron over new unless you you can afford to buy well engineered new kit.
3. Buy a decent dial indicator and mag base, probably first if buying old.
4. Be prepared to do some fettling, especially of the spindle (regardless if 50 years or one day old).
5. Buy decent drill bits and don't cheap out.
6. Buy or make a drill bit store / organiser. Don't keep your bits all in one bin knocking against each other.
7. Keep the morse taper clean. Every time you remove the taper, clean it and then clean it some more.
8. Check the table is square if and when you move it. Use a solid known straight rod, not a bit to check this.
9. Be prepared to walk away if it gives you grief - some equipment is just bad, if you do all of the above and it still doesn't do what it should, sell it on or send it back.
10. I'd seriously consider two presses if doing wood and metal. If I've learnt anything in doing the two aspects is it's best to keep them separate if you can.

Personally, I'd wait and buy a solid Fobco or Meddings. As others have said, the likes of Gumtree and Facebook, watch and wait and be prepared to turn up quick with cash and the means to move it.