Door hinge question

[crazylilting]

So my shop has this ugly sliding metal door. It is drafty and well just plain ugly. So i'm building a new double door.

It is about 85 inches high and the same in width. It will be made from 1 7/8's sapele and each door will weigh about 185 pounds. I've been looking at hinges and needs some options.

I don't want to have 4 hinges on each door, which so far looks like what might happen. But then again i'm having great difficulty finding the right products in this country.

I'd also like to get some nice hardware for it. Anyone got some sites that sell nice door handles and locking mechanisms? But most important right now is the hinges.

Thanks

 

[paininthe]

Hi, I've just bought some door furniture from these. Quick delivery, good quality.

http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/

 

[jasonB]

I'll second Ironmongery directs hinges, good quality and a good price.

Why don't you want 4 hinges at 7ft x 3'7" they are hefty doors.

Jason

 

[MikeG.]

With such big doors I would be looking at strap hinges, or garage door type hinges, rather than butt hinges. I would also be very particular about the door frame, which will have to be very strong to take all of those bending moments. Consider, too, a supporting plate in the middle on the floor, so that when closed the hinges and frame aren't supporting all the weight of the doors.

If you did feel you have to use butt hinges, then big, high quality ones, long screws, and 4 of them per door.

Mike

 

[FatFreddysCat]

I've used 5in or 6in ball race brass hinges in the past for large (bank) doors and they generally are rated at 120kg a pair, so 180kg / 396lb for three which is well above your door weight. Three should do the job so long as the frame is stiff enough

 

[crazylilting]

thanks for the replies so far.

Thus far i have made the door frame and have started installing it.

hope the picture works

It is made from 4 x 4 sapele and the header is made from 9 x 4 to get the arch in.

I think that will be sufficient for stability, i can't wait to get rid of the sliding door. i'll be starting on the doors next week. Mike you meantioned strap hinges. I wanted to use those for the look of them but they don't look all that good or at least the one's i've seen. Have you seen any good ones that will do the job?

 

[MikeG.]

I generally get blacksmith made ones done locally. Technically, I suppose they are pin hinges or tee hinges rather than strap hinges (which always seem to be lightweight sheet metal).

Mike

 

[Walter Hall]

Good range of door furniture HERE and HERE.

 

[joesoap]

Hi Craszylilting.
Do you really 'need' a 14' opening . It's a helluva hang without a jockey wheel and track . Hinges , Hooks and bands are the ones to use if going from the Coburn track you seem to have at present but one or two bolting sidelights would be a more practical option to reduce your dooor widths. Cheers !

 

[crazylilting]

Do you really 'need' a 14' opening .

No the opening is only 85 inches. I've been looking at the links and options provided so far. There is a lot to look at, but i'll get back to you all when i've found what i'm looking for.

I'm thinking some blacksmith made ones would be nice but i bet pricey. The wood has already set me back quite a bit, but i don't want to wreck it with some cheap hinges either. But then again it is only a shop...

These ball baring hinges look good, but am having difficulty sourcing out some 5 inch. And most sites don't give the weight rating of the hinges either, which makes it difficult.

I'm thinking about putting some glass in the doors but am worried about break-ins. Has anyone used laminated glass before? I know they use it in armored cars. I've had two substantial thefts and couldn't endure another one.

 

[FatFreddysCat]

These ball baring hinges look good, but am having difficulty sourcing out some 5 inch. And most sites don't give the weight rating of the hinges either, which makes it difficult.

Ball bearing hinges are generally fire rated (i.e. for external fire doors) and are suitable for 1 hour fire doors and DDA doors (such as disabled toilets) which are wider and heavier than standard doors. Most hinges of that type are rated around 100 to 120kg a pair. Cost should be £15 to £25 a pair for good hinges. Part of the reason for going to 5in or 6in hinges is because they take screws further apart so you get a more secure fix. As to suppliers, almost any half decent ironmonger should be able to supply, or failing that try Ironmongery On-Line or Ironmongery Direct and just look for "ball race fire door hinges" which should be designed for exterior use. Banks and the like often specify bronze or brass hinges because they are more difficult to break than steel hinges. For an outward hingeing door you'll get better security if you add hinge bolts as well, but even with laminated glass it is possible to effect a break-in more easily than if there were no windows. If you really are thinking secure then wired glass is probably more secure and no windows better yet. Only problem is it looks rubbish

 

[Benchwayze]

Hooks and bands for me too. Three pairs. Ironmongery direct stock them as do Screwfix. Also the doors can be lifted off for maintenance .
Worried about security with glass? You could use wired glass, with an extra heavy-gauge netting grille fixed inside. If you have egress from the shop, into your house, then also consider fitting a security beam across the doors inside.

All the best.
John

 

[MikeG.]

It sounds from the name as though "hooks and bands" could be much the same as pin hinges. Can anyone enlighten me?

Mike

 

[joesoap]

Yes Miike the hook is simply a veritcal pin on a faceplate and the band is a facefixing strap with matching machined curl to 'hook ' on to the pin . Little or no skill required to use but designed for strength and most durable in steel and iron . One could have them beautified if aesthetics is an issue . I'm sure there is no one on here who has not seen them in situ and took no notice . Cheers !

 

[Benchwayze]

Yes Mike. It maybe a Brummie term I used. I use the galvanised version of course . Got mine from Screwfix.

Regards
John

 

[MikeG.]

Thanks guys.

These are certainly the way I would go, whether you call them pin hinges or hook and band hinges. They are so easy to adjust, too, with the simple addition of washers to raise the door.

The only thing to be aware of is that there should be some dome-headed bolts/ machine screws through both the plate and the strap so as to prevent illicit removal from the outside.

Back to the glass issue mentioned earlier........I suggest that instead of laminated glass you consider screwing a steel mesh (with say inch by inch spacing) across the inside of the window. If it was just glass, a burglar wouldn't be able to tell that the glass was laminated and so might attempt a break-in, making a mess. At least with an obvious internal mesh the opportunist thief might head off to look for somewhere easier to break into.

Mike

Mike