Do I Need a Router?

[J_SAMa]

Hi,

I work wood predominantly with hand tools. Now I'm planning a grandfather clock and would like to cut some moldings.
I'd originally wated to buy some cheap-ish molding planes after stumbling upon them on old-tools.co.uk. But then I cooled off a bit and noticed most of them had serious defects and realized I don't have the proper equipment to sharpen them... I also came to the conclusion that buying a bunch of molding planes may not be as economical as buying a power router. Is that right? I'm comparing molding planes that cost £30 each and a router that costs say lower than £100 (like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001 ... ROKL5A1OLE).

I also plan on using it for mortises for the clock, which will be frame-and-panel construction. The mortises are probably going to be 6 mm in 18 mm stock is this to think for a router to stand on?

Sam

 

[AndyT]

I have both but prefer using moulding planes - because I want to enjoy the process of making things - and I don't like dust and noise. But both have their place. A power router can be easier to use, especially if your wood is not very good.

However, I would question your costings. The moulding planes I have bought have almost all been less than £10 and many less than £5. You will need to buy cutters for your router and a glance at the Wealden website (often recommended on here) shows basic cutters from £10 to £30 or more.

Also, I'd recommend you get at least a few hollows and rounds - sizes 6 to 12 are the most frequently used - and learn to make up more complex shapes from them. (See Matt Bickford's book as reviewed by Cheshire Chappie and his blog)

Also, as you are in the Netherlands, you can still buy the rebate planes you will need. And the distinctive Dutch design of hollows and rounds are easily available from places like Ducotools!

Is that the push you wanted? :wink:

 

[AndyT]

By the way, for sharpening rounds you can just use your existing oil/water/diamond stone; for the hollows you need some offcuts of tubing or dowel with abrasive paper wrapped round.

If you really need to re-shape a cutter a small diamond hone is useful - as sold for touching up the edges of router cutters, so needed either way.

Not much special equipment really!

 

[adzeman]

I also came to the conclusion that buying a bunch of molding planes may not be as economical as buying a power router.

Wood moulding planes relitive to a router are extreemly cheap. I have not paid more than £8.00 for a single plane and for the cheapest just under £4.00 therefore a set of six would cost £48.00 the cost of a cheapish router bit and a quality one could be double and you would still have learn to sharpen it, buy a small diamond to do this and learn how tolook after the bits. You cant just throw them in a drawer with your drill bits. Well you can there yours to do what ever, but not wise. Wood planes were made to last so the defective ones you have come across are rare. They may require some TLC but this can be a joy. I have three routers which I use and love as much as my wood planes and I can recall my first an Elu, which I bought for £96.00 some 25 years ago I thought like a child with its first musical instrument I could use it straight away. Even with experinced users you will spoil some stock by a small slip. You have to learn to go with the direction spin of the cutter, anticipate the jerk when you start up or, come to the end of a pass. With Wood planes you can practice on scraps of wood while on a router for stability you require longer lengths, which is why I built a router table for producing mouldings. If your feeling flush you could buy a commercial one, more expence. I suggest buying both there are skills to learn from both with equal satisfaction.

 

[J_SAMa]

I have both but prefer using moulding planes - because I want to enjoy the process of making things - and I don't like dust and noise. But both have their place. A power router can be easier to use, especially if your wood is not very good.

However, I would question your costings. The moulding planes I have bought have almost all been less than £10 and many less than £5. You will need to buy cutters for your router and a glance at the Wealden website (often recommended on here) shows basic cutters from £10 to £30 or more.

Also, I'd recommend you get at least a few hollows and rounds - sizes 6 to 12 are the most frequently used - and learn to make up more complex shapes from them. (See Matt Bickford's book as reviewed by Cheshire Chappie and his blog)

Also, as you are in the Netherlands, you can still buy the rebate planes you will need. And the distinctive Dutch design of hollows and rounds are easily available from places like Ducotools!

Is that the push you wanted? :wink:

Hi Andy,
Well, I never knew I had a geographical advantage . Much cheaper here than on old-tools.co.uk. I guess this clock project would not need a router then. But it's still on my wishlist, as a mortising machine.

What's a common molding used for clocks and panels? Say I want to build a wall-hanging clock with a panel about 400 to 500 mm tall and 250 mm wide, how big should the moldings be and what numbers of hollows and rounds do i need to make them?

These?
http://www.ducotools.eu/product-detail.php?id=2283

Sam

 

[AndyT]

Well, what you choose is up to you and the design of your clock - but you do have a very wide choice.

This book may be useful, to read on-line or download: a scholarly study with measured drawings of antiques:

http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7144...tails_on_English_furniture_from_1574_to_1820.

This is the page for a C17th clock:

but this is much later:

Do also dig into Matt Bickford's blog to show that hollows and rounds are very versatile to make exactly the shape you want - for example here, reproducing mouldings on an old clock:

http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/textbook-example.html

(I couldn't make your Ducotools link work; they don't seem to have much in at the moment.)

 

[J_SAMa]

Well, what you choose is up to you and the design of your clock - but you do have a very wide choice.

This book may be useful, to read on-line or download: a scholarly study with measured drawings of antiques:

http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7144...tails_on_English_furniture_from_1574_to_1820.

This is the page for a C17th clock:

but this is much later:

Do also dig into Matt Bickford's blog to show that hollows and rounds are very versatile to make exactly the shape you want - for example here, reproducing mouldings on an old clock:

http://musingsfrombigpink.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/textbook-example.html

(I couldn't make your Ducotools link work; they don't seem to have much in at the moment.)

The link is two sets of H&R's, no. 4 and no. 10, cost in total € 50.

If I built a clock similar to this:
https://woodworkingmasterclasses.com/pr ... ject-info/

Would it be suitable to use a roman ogee in the panel? How do you create the square "ledge"?

Sam

 

[AndyT]

Oops! I think I missed the bit where you changed from making a long-case clock to something much simpler.
For the Paul Sellers design you could make the convex shapes with an ordinary bench plane. Have a look on his blog here http://paulsellers.com/2012/12/making-the-wall-clock-part-7/ and you'll see that he just uses a gouge for the cove cut. No moulding planes to buy at all, and certainly no electric router!

(Make sure you can afford the special tool to do the beading though. :wink: )

 

[Jacob]

Yes moulding planes are not pricey and can be altered (a bit) to match profiles.
Routers cutters are very limited - you wouldn't think so to look at the catalogues but if you want to match a particular profile it's odds on you won't find it.
The ideal tool is a spindle moulder - you can make your own cutters really cheaply, and produce perfect exact copies of any moulding. It's easier to copy samples rather than working to a drawing so always save any odds and ends of mouldings you can get your hands on, and build up a collection.

 

[J_SAMa]

Oops! I think I missed the bit where you changed from making a long-case clock to something much simpler.
For the Paul Sellers design you could make the convex shapes with an ordinary bench plane. Have a look on his blog here http://paulsellers.com/2012/12/making-the-wall-clock-part-7/ and you'll see that he just uses a gouge for the cove cut. No moulding planes to buy at all, and certainly no electric router!

(Make sure you can afford the special tool to do the beading though. :wink: )

My bad, I don't know why I used "grandfather clock" in the original post...

It's going to be a clock that's SIMILAR to Paul Seller's but not an exact copy of. I would though copy some design elements from older, pre-Victorian clocks. Clocks built during and after the Victorian seem to have pretty complex mouldings and forms...

Sam

 

[deserter]

To do the molding's on something this small why not just make a scratch stock in your desired design.


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