Denatured alcohol

[Nigel-ph]

Hi everyone, I'm a new member and this is my first post, so be gentle.

Having read advice on the finishing forum regarding the use of shellac I'd be interested to know if anyone has had the same problem as I have in convincing HMRC I have a need to use denatured alcohol (DNA). It's simple enough to apply for a permit, without which suppliers cannot sell it to you, but HMRC are playing hard ball with hobbyists and insist on having a technical reference that justifies it's use.

I wanted it for soaking lathe pieces that are rough turned from green wood, having had some success using completely denatured alcohol (CDA) i.e. Purple meths. I gave this as the reason, but simply could find no technical reference to back it up and was refused permission. To their credit HMRC were very communicative and tried to accommodate. They explained that the need to add the purple dye to CDA has been removed and suggested I used the clear version of CDA rather than DNA, but I cannot find anybody supplying it!

I'd be interested to hear:
1. If anyone has managed to get HMRC permission to use DNA in the last 6 months, and how they justified their need to use it.

2. If anyone knows where to obtain colourless CDA.

 

[marcros]

Welcome to the forum.

Would isopropyl alcohol not do the same job? I am only a hobbyist but that is what I mix shellac up with. It was simply cheaper on eBay than purple meths by the 5L.

 

[Nigel-ph]

Thanks for the suggestion Marcos, but I have not read of anyone using IPA with any success to condition green wood, whereas there is a lot of discussion regarding the merits of soaking in DNA ( albeit mainly American, where DNA has a slightly different formula to the UK). I'm not looking for alternatives, although it would be worth trying IPA now you have mentioned it, and we could easily digress to the use of washing up liquid, PEG and microwave ovens, but this is not an appropriate forum for that discussion.

I am assuming that some shellac users are able to purchase DNA and I'm seeking advice on how to get permission from HMRC to use It, or where to obtain colourless CDA.

 

[Chrispy]

I might be a bit out of date, but the last time I needed some I just picked up the phone and ordered 5L of Alcohol thinners (used for spirit stains) from a polish supplier like Morrells, or Issac Lord, or Quest or HMG or Mylands or Fiddes or Jenkins etc. I've never been asked why or what for.

 

[MIGNAL]

I've come across DNA without the purple dye. In fact I see it without the dye a lot more than I used to. Problem is that there's no knowing what will be on the shelf. Sometimes clear, sometimes with the dye. Next time I'm at the local store I'll note the maker of the clear stuff - if it's there.
The DNA in the more usual outlets (DIY and supermarket chains) always seems to contain the dye.

BTW. 99% Isopropanol works perfectly well for dissolving Shellac and for French Polishing. DNA supposedly flashes off quicker but in a bottle cap evaporative 'race' that I conducted DNA won. . . but only just! Which is why I now buy the Isopropanol by the 5 Litres. I've been French Polishing for near on 30 years, 28 of which I have been using DNA. In use I can't say I've noticed any difference between the two types of alcohol.
I suspect that you won't see any difference in using Isopropanol but then again what do I know of conditioning green wood. The DNA in the US seems to contain a much higher percentage of Methyl alcohol - supposedly the nasty part of the solvent, so you may well be using a slightly different solvent anyway.

 

[JohnPW]

I bought some (purple) meths a few months age but now they've gone completely colourless.

I would have thought a common use for industrial alcohol is for making french polish, so maybe that's a good enough reason.