Critique Etiquette

[CHJ]

Critique Etiquette, is there such a thing, and is my stuff good enough to submit?


The aim of starting the listing of Critiques was to try and help new starters find their way with shape, form, finish etc. and develop an approach to viewing items in more depth, which in turn would assist them in finding their potential and personal satisfaction.

Having said the above what could be better than the submission of some accomplished pieces from the more expert members as examples, the submission of old as well as new pieces would be of great benefit to most of us as a means of learning, whether it is the appreciation of a 'perfect piece' or the discovery of those little niggles that do not look quite right but you can't put your finger on.

Now back to the headline, is there an etiquette to critique, most definitely there is, criticism is rarely helpful to anybody but critical observation of an object with a balanced alternate view, method or idea provides a valid reference point for others to consider, a simple "I don't like it" adds little other than registering your preference and gives the submitter no guidance as to why the piece is not liked. Favourable comments are also very valid if they add to the balance, but again an explanation as to why it strikes a chord is needed, comments such as "That's Great" or "I like it" are of little value unless supported by your reasons for liking the piece.

Do not be afraid of making comment about an item, even if you could not make it or even understand how it was made, your visual interpretation of it is still valid, you go though life endeavouring to choose your surroundings based on your personal likes and dislikes, it would be a dull world if we all had the same preferences. You have been asked to comment with "critique required" so please feel free to do so.

Regarding "is my stuff good enough", it certainly is no matter how basic, if you feel you need to have a second opinion on which way to go or that something is not quite right but you can't see what, then ask others for their comments, we have all been (or are still) there at some time.

A phrase that is often heard is "I know what is wrong with my stuff, I don't need comment". Well we all need to learn "what is wrong" as much as "what is right" and you may find that a broader view of your piece comes to a differing consensus, so if you can, please participate.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Chas,

it's good that you're making the effort but is this really required? In other posts people have moaned about lack of input. Now anybody who was thinking about posting is being told what they should and shouldn't write? Most people don't like being told what to do...especially on the internet...and possibly even more so on the ukworkshop forums.

Yes, we need to keep the insults and injury off the forums. Other than that can we not be free to say what we want?

Just my view and not necessarily worth anything,

Dave

 

[Taffy Turner]

Chas,

Fair enough, but one of the reasons that I don't often contribute to critique postings is that I quite often like a piece, but don't know why - similarly I often dislike a piece, but again I am unable to put my finger on why. To me, a piece either looks right or wrong.

I take my hat off to the others on here who are able to articulate why a piece works or doesn't - sadly I don't seem to posses that skill.

Regards

Gary

 

[CHJ]

Hi Chas,

it's good that you're making the effort but is this really required? In other posts people have moaned about lack of input. Now anybody who was thinking about posting is being told what they should and shouldn't write? Most people don't like being told what to do...especially on the internet...and possibly even more so on the ukworkshop forums.

Yes, we need to keep the insults and injury off the forums. Other than that can we not be free to say what we want?

Just my view and not necessarily worth anything,

Dave

Dave, I take your point and apologize to anybody if they feel I have overstepped the mark and give the impression that I am trying to dictate what comments should be made, it certainly was not my intention.

I was just trying to get a little expansion of input and views on 'critique' threads over and above and in addition to the usual general banter that we all enjoy on this very open forum.

 

[CHJ]

...Fair enough, but one of the reasons that I don't often contribute to critique postings is that I quite often like a piece, but don't know why - similarly I often dislike a piece, but again I am unable to put my finger on why. To me, a piece either looks right or wrong.
......
Gary

Even a statement to that effect I feel is not a waste of time Gary, although perceived by some as being close to what I portrayed, maybe incorrectly as a unhelpful comment such as 'I like it' gains validity IMO if qualified by personal sentiment or reservation and could lead to a consensus of opinion about a piece by the end of a thread.

 

[Paul.J]

I suppose that thats where the difference lies.
Putting a piece up as normal because your happy with it and then asking for critique because you feel that something is not quite right with it,but your not sure whats wrong with it.
Hopefully the experts and more experienced can point it out,which is what i feel the critique is for,perhaps i'm wrong.
But i must also say that i am not very good either at giving critique.As Gary says i don't have that skill. :roll:
Paul.J.

 

[Bodrighy]

That last piece that I put up is perhaps a good example of negaive critique that has a positive effect. I liked the overall look of the wood and the feel of it but felt it 'wasn't right.' I am now in the process of trying to work out wht I can do to improve it. Mark's idea of carving it for example is something I adn't thought of, Most people think it is too bulky or lopsided etc. If every piece I put up for critique was recieved with only positive comments I would begin to doubt the sincerity of the remarks. To me a simple, 'not really keen on this one' is as valid as praise.

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

Chas, I think you have made some very good points about the difference between criticism and critical review that I think also apply to the 'Interesting Pieces of Furniture' threads.

 

[TEP]

Mornin' all.

Critique, very emotive with some people, and as has been said already not every bodies cup of tea, yet in my opinion any comment is constructive.

Most woodturners eventually get to the stage where they have so many bits that they try to sell some, you can only give so many away as 'pressies'.
Even if it is just to recoup some cash to get more supplies. In which case even a 'I like' or 'I don't like that' is relevant, and if you can get a description of the persons like or dislike, or a suggestion on how to correct the 'fault' then that is a great bonus.

The only problem I see to this 'critique' thread is that it is only woodturners generally who comment, with the occasional visitor from the other disciplines on the forum. Pity we couldn't get the public involved. :lol: Now there's something to think on!

 

[Mark Hancock]

A phrase that is often heard is "I know what is wrong with my stuff, I don't need comment". Well we all need to learn "what is wrong" as much as "what is right" and you may find that a broader view of your piece comes to a differing consensus

Chas

I couldn't agree more. We all tend to work in isolation and we can get very involved in a piece of work with almost a blinkered view of it based on an initial idea. It's good to step back and get other view points. It can lead to options or directions in your work you may never have thought of. After all no one person knows it all and with the rate at which turning is developing we are all certainly learning all the time.

but one of the reasons that I don't often contribute to critique postings is that I quite often like a piece, but don't know why - similarly I often dislike a piece, but again I am unable to put my finger on why. To me, a piece either looks right or wrong.

I take my hat off to the others on here who are able to articulate why a piece works or doesn't - sadly I don't seem to posses that skill.

Gary

I know the feeling :lol: But I believe with practice you can develop those skills. The best advice I was given years ago was after your initial reaction to a piece is to take a more detailed look and ask yourself why? Why do you like/dislike it? Is it the curve, rim, base etc?
Maybe you can start by asking contributors to critiques why they have made the comments they have? At the recent AWGB Seminar that is exactly what one of the audience did to the 'expert' during the critique of the Instant Gallery. The discussion that followed was very informative. And remember at the end of the day it is all subjective. There are no rights and wrongs just differing views and opinions which are all valid.

The only problem I see to this 'critique' thread is that it is only woodturners generally who comment, with the occasional visitor from the other disciplines on the forum. Pity we couldn't get the public involved. Now there's something to think on!

TEP

It's always great to get views from outside the world of turning because then you get comments which aren't influenced by knowledge of turning techniques and the limitations the lathe can impose on the maker. It can send you in directions you would never dream of :lol:

 

[davol]

I have been in France so missed the start this debate. On reflection not a bad thing, so a few observations:

1. I am still a novice in the turning game so offering my work for critique is I think unfair to both me and the reviewers. Posting photos and getting comments on technique and general advice is a totaly different matter and is one that I have greatly benefitted from on this forum.

2. Critique from Photo's is a dangerous thing unless you know the general standard of work of the person offering their work for criticism. Even then the only real way is to see the item in the flesh so to speak.

4. Most of the turnings offered for critique seem to be either bowls or vases. Where are the spindle, pen, miniature, turners ?

5. On what is the criticism based? form, standard of turning, finish, choice of material, other. I do not know. Looking at most of the posts, form seems to be major element. Is this saying that turnings are just an art form, or is there more to it than that. Further to the form issue a single type of form seems to be be preferred. I like both Picasso and Constable, could both be accommodated in the turners world?

Davol (Dave C.)