Could you pass the 11-plus?

[Benchwayze]

There's a lot in what you say Lons. I seem to remember the 11+ (1950 it must have been) as a bit like ordinary exam in format.

'Sums' to do, Essays to write, General knowledge questions to answer, and Comprehension questions. Where I fell over was Maths. At the time I found them difficult. Later of course, I began to get a glimmer of what was going on, but it was too late to go to Grammar School, something I yearned to do. I wanted to be a Doctor would you believe?

But there you go. I chose the RN to get out of a factory. I did a good thing, for myself, and of course I managed to augment my school woodworking experience there! So all in all, I came to the surface heads up! :mrgreen:

John

 

[Lons]

There's a lot in what you say Lons. I seem to remember the 11+ (1950 it must have been) as a bit like ordinary exam in format.

'Sums' to do, Essays to write, General knowledge questions to answer, and Comprehension questions. Where I fell over was Maths. At the time I found them difficult. Later of course, I began to get a glimmer of what was going on, but it was too late to go to Grammar School, something I yearned to do. I wanted to be a Doctor would you believe?

But there you go. I chose the RN to get out of a factory. I did a good thing, for myself, and of course I managed to augment my school woodworking experience there! So all in all, I came to the surface heads up! :mrgreen:

John

It's strange to look back John, I'm 62 now and tbh I can't really remember the content of the exam except that as you say, it was ritin and rithmatic (memory's going).
What I do remember is that I didn't take it seriously and I was told later by my teacher that I'd let myself down as I could have got a scholarship to the Royal Grammar in Newcastle (I think I'd have enjoyed that even less).

I took some teaching qualifications a few years ago when I was asked to lecture part time at a local college and it was clear that some of the students who were excellent with their hands would never be able to pass exams or produce quality assignments - what a waste and demotivation of lads with valuable skills.

Brave man wanting to be a doc btw - not for me - I feel queasy at the sight of blood (especially mine ) and with 4 nurses and 2 doctors in my immediate family, I have first hand info on their working conditions.

I don't think anyone should look back with regret as it's a negative thought. The paths we choose make us what we are and certainly given another go, most of us would do many things differently but then other things would be lost as a consequence.

Bob

 

[bugbear]

I've done a few. OU courses are extremely well (tightly) run and there are no shortcuts.

If you've managed an OU degree, Jacob, I'm genuinely impressed. As a sometime employer/interviewer, I rate OU degrees higher than all but the top physical universities. Doing an OU degree is a good deal harder than usual, since the study is interrupted, and the "context" less intellectually immersive - the day job intrudes.

BugBear

 

[cutting42]

I've done a few. OU courses are extremely well (tightly) run and there are no shortcuts.

If you've managed an OU degree, Jacob, I'm genuinely impressed. As a sometime employer/interviewer, I rate OU degrees higher than all but the top physical universities. Doing an OU degree is a good deal harder than usual, since the study is interrupted, and the "context" less intellectually immersive - the day job intrudes.

BugBear

I bet its a degree in sharpening :lol:

 

[angelboy]

Shall I take an OU Course? I gave up the one I started, when I realised all I had to do to get A grades was copy wodges of text from the course literature and present them as an assignment!

Too late now eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know what you were doing but I'm on my last assignment for a law degree and the last thing I can do is copy loads of text and present it. I know, I tried! Been getting mid 70's for my scores which would have been a C/D (GCSE grades) when I was at school but now anything above 70 is classed as a first! (Degree grade). What! Over 40 is a pass.........imagine if you only knew how to do 40% of a build and it was accepted as a good enough!

My wife's nephew got 11 A*'s for his GCSEs. Every one was course work, no final exams.
He's so smart (so he thinks) that his degree course (Saint Andrews) runs for 4 years not 3. They say that the students have insufficient knowledge to take the degree after their A levels, so they have to catch up. What about the poor pippers who next year will have to pay an extra £9000 to catch up with their A levels.

This year, my daughter (Year 9) is starting her science GSCE a year early. This was told to me by her science teacher at the last parent evening. When I responded with, 'wow that's great, she'll have a GSCE a year early,' I was stopped a informed that they'd be finishing at at the end of year 11. So 3 years to do the GSCE, with coursework, when we had 2 years and a final exam. I wish I was back at school today. The best thing is it's 'sold' to the kids by telling them they're so clever that they'll be starting their GCSE's a year early, not that the they're so daft that it now takes them 3 years to get the message through their thickening skulls! There will be HELL to pay when these little 'over achievers' enter the real world!!!!!

Back to the amazing nephew, 17 weeks he's just had off. Did he get a job? Nope! Did he even look for one? Nope! He just said that there is no jobs for students so what was the point in trying!!!! His sister lasted a day a BHS before leaving saying that she wasn't going to be ordered about by a chav!

MY........GOD.........what have we done......!

I imagine the next big Hollywood movie won't be about attacks from aliens, or a killer blob on the rampage - just a movie about the future - fast forward 10 - 20 years when we're all a little older and this generation are running the world..........doesn't bear thinking about!

 

[Digit]

50yrs ago when I was taking a degree course in engineering, angel, the pass was 40%.
People complain about kids being 'taught how to pass exams,' well I did the same thing.
In maths we had 9 questions, we only had to attempt 6, I swatted the 'easy' ones.
I reasoned that I only had to get 3 absolutely correct and I would pass.
We had 2 hrs? for the exam, I left 45 mins early.
'Given up?' The observer asked.
'No! I've finished.'
'You can't have! It's not possible!'
I got 96%.
I was questioned later about cheating as it was supposed to be impossible to complete an exam within the prescribed time, as how far you had got was part of the test. So I explained.
Then I did the same in another exam!
It's the same with government targets, set a target and people will find ways of hitting them if their job/bonus etc is dependent on it.
Cheating?
I don't know frankly.

Roy.

 

[cutting42]

MY........GOD.........what have we done......!

I imagine the next big Hollywood movie won't be about attacks from aliens, or a killer blob on the rampage - just a movie about the future - fast forward 10 - 20 years when we're all a little older and this generation are running the world..........doesn't bear thinking about!

s'funny I heard exactly the same from my parents and my grandparents generation. Its our nature to despair of the youth of today.

 

[Benchwayze]

Shall I take an OU Course? I gave up the one I started, when I realised all I had to do to get A grades was copy wodges of text from the course literature and present them as an assignment!

Too late now eh? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't know what you were doing but I'm on my last assignment for a law degree and the last thing I can do is copy loads of text and present it. I know, I tried! Been getting mid 70's for my scores which would have been a C/D (GCSE grades) when I was at school but now anything above 70 is classed as a first! (Degree grade). What! Over 40 is a pass.........imagine if you only knew how to do 40% of a build and it was accepted as a good enough!

My wife's nephew got 11 A*'s for his GCSEs. Every one was course work, no final exams.
He's so smart (so he thinks) that his degree course (Saint Andrews) runs for 4 years not 3. They say that the students have insufficient knowledge to take the degree after their A levels, so they have to catch up. What about the poor pippers who next year will have to pay an extra £9000 to catch up with their A levels.

This year, my daughter (Year 9) is starting her science GSCE a year early. This was told to me by her science teacher at the last parent evening. When I responded with, 'wow that's great, she'll have a GSCE a year early,' I was stopped a informed that they'd be finishing at at the end of year 11. So 3 years to do the GSCE, with coursework, when we had 2 years and a final exam. I wish I was back at school today. The best thing is it's 'sold' to the kids by telling them they're so clever that they'll be starting their GCSE's a year early, not that the they're so daft that it now takes them 3 years to get the message through their thickening skulls! There will be HELL to pay when these little 'over achievers' enter the real world!!!!!

Back to the amazing nephew, 17 weeks he's just had off. Did he get a job? Nope! Did he even look for one? Nope! He just said that there is no jobs for students so what was the point in trying!!!! His sister lasted a day a BHS before leaving saying that she wasn't going to be ordered about by a chav!

MY........GOD.........what have we done......!

I imagine the next big Hollywood movie won't be about attacks from aliens, or a killer blob on the rampage - just a movie about the future - fast forward 10 - 20 years when we're all a little older and this generation are running the world..........doesn't bear thinking about!

All I know is when I sat down and actually presented my own essay with my own ideas, etc, I was getting C grades. Tutor kept saying to me that I was wandering off the track of the 'units' (The course material). I should be trying to put forward the ideas that are in there. I.e, I was arguing for different solutions, which I thought University was all about. Sad to say it was about toeing the party line; which happened to be Harold Wilson's successors. When I began to interpret the texts in the units,more closely my grades went to A. I couldn't see the point of just summarising someone else's words, just to give instances of where they were right; especially if I believed they might be wrong. So I decided I wasn't learning anything, and eventually I gave up on it. maybe things have changed in 30 years.

So there you go. A potted history of my course, which I enjoyed, except for the Summer School at Preston.


John

 

[Jacob]

I've done a few. OU courses are extremely well (tightly) run and there are no shortcuts.

If you've managed an OU degree, Jacob, I'm genuinely impressed. As a sometime employer/interviewer, I rate OU degrees higher than all but the top physical universities. Doing an OU degree is a good deal harder than usual, since the study is interrupted, and the "context" less intellectually immersive - the day job intrudes.

BugBear

"I've done a few" means I've done a few. Nearly enough for half a degree so far! Just for my own pleasure/use. S100, A303, TT280, MST121 two years ago, L195 just starting.
OU stuff is hard as you say, but also because it is highly regulated with strict deadlines, targets and a demanding workload. If you get even a middling mark you are doing pretty well.

Benchwayze I think you may have missed the point to some extent!
So I decided I wasn't learning anything, - true when you were trotting out your own stuff, not true when you were being obliged to study and understand someone else's.
Things haven't changed in 30 years - that's how education works.

PS and if you were getting As so easily you were doing pretty well and maybe should have stuck with it. It'd get harder eventually, believe me.

 

[bugbear]

Nearly enough for half a degree so far! Just for my own pleasure/use. S100, A303, TT280, MST121 two years ago, L195 just starting.

(googly) if that lot add to half a degree, I'd love to see the title of the degree!!

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Nearly enough for half a degree so far! Just for my own pleasure/use. S100, A303, TT280, MST121 two years ago, L195 just starting.

(googly) if that lot add to half a degree, I'd love to see the title of the degree!!

BugBear

You mean you can't see the clear and obvious connections? :roll:

 

[Benchwayze]

I've done a few. OU courses are extremely well (tightly) run and there are no shortcuts.

If you've managed an OU degree, Jacob, I'm genuinely impressed. As a sometime employer/interviewer, I rate OU degrees higher than all but the top physical universities. Doing an OU degree is a good deal harder than usual, since the study is interrupted, and the "context" less intellectually immersive - the day job intrudes.

BugBear

"I've done a few" means I've done a few. Nearly enough for half a degree so far! Just for my own pleasure/use. S100, A303, TT280, MST121 two years ago, L195 just starting.
OU stuff is hard as you say, but also because it is highly regulated with strict deadlines, targets and a demanding workload. If you get even a middling mark you are doing pretty well.

Benchwayze I think you may have missed the point to some extent!
So I decided I wasn't learning anything, - true when you were trotting out your own stuff, not true when you were being obliged to study and understand someone else's.
Things haven't changed in 30 years - that's how education works.

PS and if you were getting As so easily you were doing pretty well and maybe should have stuck with it. It'd get harder eventually, believe me.

Well say 60-70% of the stuff from 'other people' I had already learned; either at school, or from my own reading, and various other endeavours during the preceding 45 years. The remaining 20% had leanings that didn't sit with me. Say no more.

John