CMBS car breaking system

[Amateur]

So, Im sat at the traffic lights in a honda hrv 4 years old. No one on the starting grid and a clear road ahead.
Long line of traffic behind.
The lights change, The handbrake disengages and I put my foot down to move off
Maybe five seconds into accelerating away the auto collision breaking system locks on and the roar from hell filled the cabin.
The bloke in a white van just avoids tail ending me.
This is my first experience with this technology that will put into all new vehicles.
I went to a Honda service centre who wanted 120 quid to run a diagnostic check to see if there is a problem with the hand break or more likely the radar and distance electronics.
And yes they know about the issue.
Reading on line I see litigation en mass for tail ending accidents with Honda due to this problem. USA.
The dealer cant tell me if this problem would arise doing 70 on a motorway.
All they can offer is to make sure the latest software has been uploaded which should be done at service intervals and check the system
But, I explained this job isnt included in the tick box of a full or intermediate service?
How do I know its been checked?
How do I know there wont be an update a few weeks after a service?
No answer.
Can you turn if off for me?
No.
I have no confidence in the vehicle anymore.
And worse still less confidence it can be fixed.
Anyone experienced this problem?

 

[MARK.B.]

Never have but i can see why you have serious concerns that it might happen again.

 

[AJB Temple]

This first happened to me 8 years ago when I have a new BMW M4. Most recently with a new Tesla. These systems are not smart enough. One issue appears to be that they don't monitor what is going on behind, and they are not observationally predictive, unlike the human brain.

My car also has steering which repositions the car "for your safety" by taking charge of the steering. In every circumstance it has been a false hazard (like a dangerously advancing telegraph pole) but scares the bejeezus out of passengers and oncoming drivers alike. You can turn it off, but it resets by default every time you restart the car.

Such tech is to be avoided.

 

[Amateur]

I'm afraid its here to stay and being introduced into all new cars.
They seem to be unconcerned about the deaths it could cause and only praise its technical usefulness.

 

[Spectric]

These systems are not smart enough. One issue appears to be that they don't monitor what is going on behind, and they are not observationally predictive, unlike the human brain.

And yes they are still looking at driverless vehicles so our roads could become one big scrapheap challenge.

 

[AJB Temple]

Our car has full self drive, with auto steer and auto navigate. None of it is actually useful. Rest assured, we are 10 or 20 years away from driverless vehicles except in very limited and defined circumstances. It just about works on motorways, but in towns and on any rural road in the UK or Europe, it is unusable.

Various issues disable these systems anyway. For example low sun blinding the cameras. The wrong kind of rain blinding the cameras.

Clearly we are at the pioneering end of the the evolution, but autonomous systems have no chance until the vast majority of vehicles are similarly equipped and can communicate with each other.

 

[Spectric]

until the vast majority of vehicles are similarly equipped and can communicate with each other.

Thats never going to happen, each manufacturers vehicles will speak their own language because they will say it is better than the rest so then they will need interpreters.

 

[clogs]

think I'll keep rebuilding my rust free VW T4 transporter....
I'm 74 next year....hopefully it'll see me out.....
Unless some moron in a fancy new car totals it.....

 

[Lorenzl]

We were in a friends Mercedes - SUV style - going to the channel tunnel when all of a sudden the car braked hard. It was down to a height warning bar across the road that the car was well clear of.

 

[Ozi]

Thats never going to happen, each manufacturers vehicles will speak their own language because they will say it is better than the rest so then they will need interpreters.

Not so. The "Language" is dictated by legislation. More of these features come in each year, most can be turned off at present and probably always will be for rescue purposes. The reliability improves with each generation but there will always be failures just as there are with humans. Humans in control of vehicles kill about 5 people a day in this country down 20% since 2010, if you go back pre 2000 it was around 10 a day, if those figures were for autonomous vehicles there would be demonstrations in the streets. The rear ending issue is as much due to humans tailgating and not being as good at breaking as the auto systems, as it is to possible system failures, there is a feature coming in to help deal with this, when the car or driver apply brakes beyond a fixed level the hazard lights will flash at a faster rate than normal, at some point in the future this will cause the following car to also break.

Most of us dislike these systems myself included but the maths is on there side

 

[Spectric]

Complication is ok provided it is not delivered on a shoe string, automotive interconnects are not known for there quality and everything is driven by price so you will get problems. One factor not highlighted in the data is vehicle density, the more people results in more vehicles and with more vehicles then the probability of accidents must increase. Add into this the stress of driving stop start through traffic and accidents become inevitiable.

Another big factor is that people seem to think they are driving something that makes them invincible, they feel and have been told there vehicle is very safe with plenty of airbags, add in all the flat screen displays we now have and other distractions so peoples concentration is reduced and the risk increases further.

They need to go back to a bare bones vehicle interior with just the basic's, speedo, fuel gauge and minimal warning lights, do people really need to be told that a door is open on some graphic display that shows which door! Years ago we knew a door was open because the interior light was on.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

It is much easier to blame the tech than accept that we are personally fallible.

Autonomous systems are capable of continual improvement - cars involved in incidents potentially have a huge amount of data available for analysis and systems improvement. The average human driver has a skewed, partial recollection often dominated by concerns for a no claims bonus.

Autonomous controls don't have arguments with the boss, get tired, stressed, incapable through drink and drugs, suffer road rage, answer the phone, play with the satnav etc etc.

Independent analysis and comparison of accidents involving human and digital systems is needed - an objective rather than emotional analysis of the reasons for failure should drive conclusions.

 

[Amateur]

Not so. The "Language" is dictated by legislation. More of these features come in each year, most can be turned off at present and probably always will be for rescue purposes. The reliability improves with each generation but there will always be failures just as there are with humans. Humans in control of vehicles kill about 5 people a day in this country down 20% since 2010, if you go back pre 2000 it was around 10 a day, if those figures were for autonomous vehicles there would be demonstrations in the streets. The rear ending issue is as much due to humans tailgating and not being as good at breaking as the auto systems, as it is to possible system failures, there is a feature coming in to help deal with this, when the car or driver apply brakes beyond a fixed level the hazard lights will flash at a faster rate than normal, at some point in the future this will cause the following car to also break.

Most of us dislike these systems myself included but the maths is on there side

But Im afraid most of these systems cant be switched off now. They could a few years ago from what Ive read but today not so.

 

[Amateur]

The insurances will..or already have ..stopped paying out for rear end shunts from what I can gather.
Here lies another problem.

 

[Blister]

It happened to me driving a HGV , Some bright spark cut very close across the front of my lorry trying to make the slip road off the M25 , So close it set off the collision avoidance , Scared the poo out of me , Even with my seatbelt on I thought I was going to hit the windscreen and ended up with a sore shoulder
Lucky I was on my way back to base and no stock in the trailer was damaged , Not a nice experience.

 

[Spectric]

Humans will always be a weak link, when working on safety systems where there are very high hazzards involved then you want no human interaction and the system should alarm and react without needing a human to do anything because they cannot be relied upon. With cars maybe rather than try and overcome human shortcomings with technology we should be delivering higher standards of training where we actually teach people to drive a car and not how to pass the test.

 

[stuart little]

Now you know why I kept my 2001 Saab for 21 yrs, & now given up car ownership. Maybe re-generate 'Tin Lizzies' & 'Moggy Minors' & 'Angle Boxes'.

 

[AJB Temple]

Just to add a little balance. There are a lot of positives to these systems even they they annoy me. For example, in our electric car you can set what distance you want from the car in front and it will maintain that and not let you crash. It will not let you pull out into the path of something in your blind spot without giving tactile, audible and visual warnings. In traffic jams cruise control operates down to stand still so that car will maintain position in slow moving traffic without you doing anything.

The BMW M4 we had was superb at hazard identification as it was a dual system thing with infrared. On one memorable occasion it identified a drunk person dressed in all black at night stepping out in front of us on a dark, misty country road 200m away and braked. This silly person was near invisible but the infra red system clocked him before either of us saw him, and has also worked for deer (we have lots round our way).

I agree that the tech is improving. Things like systems to keep cars say three car lengths apart would pretty much eliminate motorway traffic jams if all cars had them.

It would be nice if the industry (or regulators) were to agree on the key things that need development and all develop them simultaneously. Unfortunately, one thing I fear we are very likely to see is automatic tracked road pricing.

 

[J-G]

...Unfortunately, one thing I fear we are very likely to see is automatic tracked road pricing.

The only logical reason for 'fearing' that is if you are a high milage user and suspect that you may have to contribute in proper accord in relation to your useage.

Though, of course, it could be in use without further technology - the mileage you do is currently recorded at each MOT Test.

 

[Spectric]

Maybe we do need a fairer vehicle taxation system, but any revenue generated should be to maintain the roads and fill the holes rather than plug the many voids in government finances.