Chisels

[bugbear]

Grrr bench chisels. I've been looking for some olde englandish examples to replace my plastic handled marples DIY specials for maybe 12 months or so. So far I've only found two not banana shaped enough to be worth buying, and one of them was American. I think Ashly Iles will be getting a call before very long.

Second hand chisels with decent blade lengths have always been a little thin on the ground, and bevel edged versions really quite rare.

It took me a long time (5 years) to get a decent range of BE chisels (around 3/16" - 1") at good prices (under 3 quid each)

BugBear (patient and cheap)

 

[pam niedermayer]

Grrr bench chisels. I've been looking for some olde englandish examples to replace my plastic handled marples DIY specials for maybe 12 months or so....

I've found that as I've obtained the specialty chisels I need, such as morticing and paring, I no longer need bench chisels. So while I may keep the small set of 2 cherries, just in case, I'll probably sell the large set of Japanese bench chisels.

Pam

 

[David C]

Pam,

This demonstrates interesting differences of technique?

I chose to chop my dovetail shoulder lines instead of paring, (faster and more accurate in my opinion) and would not be without a set of bench chisels. How else is one to remove the waste from single lap dovetails and secret mitres, what else chops back to a dado line so nicely as a wide Japanese bench chisel etc etc

These are instant thoughts and not any kind of criticism.

best wishes,
David

 

[MarcW]

David,

I used to pare dovetail shoulder lines, often enough with a clamped batten that would guide the cut, sometimes I glued wet and dry on the batten. This worked okay but I never was quite satisfied by the method, because the batten tended to slide, and was difficult to put exactly at the guaged line. After watching your last DVD on chisels, I changed to your chopping method. No fuss, much less time, no setup, no stress, just pure ww pleisure... I like those moments when someone takes the devil out of the work 8)

 

[David C]

Marc,

So glad you like chopping.

The good old Krenov guide block still gets very occasional use here but not for DT shoulders.

The problem is to clamp the guide block in exactly the right place.

David

 

[pam niedermayer]

Pam,

This demonstrates interesting differences of technique?

I chose to chop my dovetail shoulder lines instead of paring, (faster and more accurate in my opinion) and would not be without a set of bench chisels. How else is one to remove the waste from single lap dovetails and secret mitres, what else chops back to a dado line so nicely as a wide Japanese bench chisel etc etc

These are instant thoughts and not any kind of criticism.

best wishes,
David

I usually chop my dovetails, too, just don't use bench chisels, might use light weight chutaki (carpenter's, kind of between oire and atsu) or atsu (heavy duty mortise chisels in larger sizes) or shinogi (often called dovetail, not because they're specifically for dovetails but because they look like dove tails).

Pam

 

[David C]

Pam,

Thank you, lots of chisels ~;-)#

David

 

[matthewwh]

David / Marc

I chose to chop my dovetail shoulder lines instead of paring, (faster and more accurate in my opinion)
David

Now I'm really intreagued, I chop AND pare my DT's making a triangular shaped cutout (I always thought the two kinda went together) does this mean I'm doing twice as much work as I need to? Or do I need to invest in another DVD to quench my thirst for edification?

 

[David C]

Matthew,

I think that is the European method.

I was taught to saw waste with piercing or Jewellers saw with 18 tpi fretsaw blade installed. For huge dovetails Coping saw is used.

This gets you close to shoulder lines, then perhaps two chopping cuts which go half way through, from both sides finishes the majority of the line.

The advantage of this method is that only one final cut is made from the cut shoulder line, minimizing bruising and compression. If shoulder lines are cut in fairly deep with a sharp cutting gauge or equivalent, I dont even have to grip the chisel handle as the edge seats securely in the gauge line.

After release cut, I then pare into the corners with a slightly skewed chisel, not a skew chisel.

SEE Book 3 page 114 and book 1 page 66 & 73 or of course DVD 5 ~;-)#

David

 

[woodbloke]

David C wrote:

I was taught to saw waste with piercing or Jewellers saw with 18 tpi fretsaw blade installed. For huge dovetails Coping saw is used.

This gets you close to shoulder lines, then perhaps two chopping cuts which go half way through, from both sides finishes the majority of the line.

I use much the same method, I was also taught to very slightly undercut the surface at the shoulder line. Corners are then cleaned out with a 'shop-made knife, blade made from an old cut throat razor with a very large grippy handle which means that I can have a lot of control over how it's used - Rob

 

[pam niedermayer]

Now I'm really intreagued, I chop AND pare my DT's making a triangular shaped cutout (I always thought the two kinda went together) does this mean I'm doing twice as much work as I need to? Or do I need to invest in another DVD to quench my thirst for edification?

Yes, more of everyting, conspicuous consumers always welcome, especially if you increase your credit card debt at the same time.

I chop and then pare at the line, trim the corners as needed. If the dovetails are really small and narrow, I pare all the way.

Pam

 

[TonyW]

Rob, your shop made knife looks great - can see it runs of AA 1.5volts what size is the motor

Cheers
Tony

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Here are my cast steel chisels I wa susing them today and thought you might like to see them, not matching handles or all beval edge but cracking steel and loads of history.

Pete

 

[bugbear]

Hi,

Here are my cast steel chisels I wa susing them today and thought you might like to see them, not matching handles or all beval edge but cracking steel and loads of history.

Pete

VERY nice.

BugBear (with similar, but lesser)

 

[matthewwh]

I was taught to saw waste with piercing or Jewellers saw with 18 tpi fretsaw blade installed. For huge dovetails Coping saw is used.

This gets you close to shoulder lines, then perhaps two chopping cuts which go half way through, from both sides finishes the majority of the line.

The advantage of this method is that only one final cut is made from the cut shoulder line, minimizing bruising and compression. If shoulder lines are cut in fairly deep with a sharp cutting gauge or equivalent, I dont even have to grip the chisel handle as the edge seats securely in the gauge line.

After release cut, I then pare into the corners with a slightly skewed chisel, not a skew chisel.

SEE Book 3 page 114 and book 1 page 66 & 73 or of course DVD 5 ~;-)#

David

~;-)# A bearded smiley... outstanding!!!

Thanks David - that makes a lot of sense. DVD #5 is definitely on the Christmas list too, I've yet to watch one that didn't save me hours of time in the workshop.

I have been playing around with different methods quite a bit in the past few months, whilst trialling prototypes of dovetail chisels. One method you might find interesting was using chisels for initial laying out instead of a knife.

I'd start with a single cut with the marking gauge, then definine the baseline of each socket individually using a light chopping cut with a chisel, registered in the marked line. Another two chops define the sides, always keeping the bevel towards the waste, and give you a nice crisp edge to saw against. I still carried the marks around the end with a square and marking knife as this proved to be more accurate.

Once the waste is removed, you use the same chisel that you laid the joint out with to clean up the baseline, thus ensuring a nice flat bottom and a bare minimum of fluff in the corners. A final clean around with a cabinetmakers fishtail skew and you're done. If I can get this image to appear you will see a laid out DT on the left showing the initial tapped in baseline and sawn shoulders, cleaning one up with the FT Skew, one waiting for the final clean up of the baseline and the edge of a finished one.

Pete,

That looks like a good set, most of them probably only on their second woodworker, and nothing wrong with firmers either. In fact many of the chisels sold these days are actually firmers with the corners ground off rather than true bevel edged chisels. If you ever do feel the need for matching handles let me know.

Has anyone heard from Ian by the way? Just wondering what he plumped for in the end.

 

[Racers]

Hi, matthew

Some of them are on their 3rd owner now, they are my selected ones I have another tool roll full of ones like these but not as nice, I have a 1 1/2 bevel edge Sorby that didn't make the grade as its to long to fit in the roll!! I also have a nice set of gouges and some paring chisels and gouges, I guess I have a problem I must have about 70 chisels and gouges.

Pete

 

[MarcW]

...
Has anyone heard from Ian by the way? Just wondering what he plumped for in the end.

That would interest me too. As I'm not sure anymore of what I recommended earlier during this thread. Four days before this thread started I ordered two bench chisels from LN and did not yet get them. So if I was asked once again which ones to recommend, I'd say those that are available even if you have to cope with new handles and lots of fettling... :?

 

[bugbear]

Nice use of AA battery as an (almost?) universal item of size reference.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

BB wrote -

AA battery as an (almost?) universal item of size reference.

...apart from a 50p piece possibly? - Rob

 

[bugbear]

BB wrote -

AA battery as an (almost?) universal item of size reference.

...apart from a 50p piece possibly? - Rob

That works about as well as the dimes our American friends are prone to.

BugBear