Chapel window fastener suggestions?

bench_monkey · 15 Dec 2017

Hello again UKW, sorry for the heavy post!I’m after a few ideas from the joiners amongst us. Hopefully I can explain the situation with a few pictures and hopefully get some ideas because I’m unsure what’s the best solution at the minute.

The job; I’m making windows for an old chapel converted to a holiday let. He’s put a floor in to split the building from a huge room to 2 floors. The customer has stated that the opening lights are to be inward opening and hinged at the bottom. These pictures should give you an idea of the layout, they’re in 2 pieces for ease of transport/fitting as they are 3900 tall. Apologies for the sideways picture, haven’t got the means to lift them together yet! The lights will be where the red lines are (5 windows in total, 2 totally fixed, 3 with lights in) as I’ve drawn on the picture. The floor level is where the raised and fielded panels are.

The problem; My dilemma is the fasteners. Upstairs is fine as they are waist height and perfectly accessible. The downstairs are the problem as the fasteners are likely to be 7-8ft off the floor. I don’t have a picture of the room itself but here’s a rough sketch of the layout. Unfortunately the job is 100 mile away so I can’t pop over for a look!

My ideas so far: All the lights will have arm stays anyway ( https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/pro ... ome-702780 ) to restrict the widows and hold them open. The top lights will have fanlight catches ( https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/pro ... ome-626635 ) as they are waist height and easily accessible. The bottom light dilemma - fanlight catches are easy to open on a pole but difficult to close as the window is so far away from reach. My idea at the minute is side fitted telescopic operators ( https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/pro ... ted-746613 ) simply due to the height restriction of the bulkhead over the window.

Hopefully I have explained my predicament with enough detail to get some feedback, but if anyone has any ideas but needs more info don’t hesitate to ask. At the minute we are close to ordering the telescopic openers but I wanted to ask here first in case anyone has other input.

If you’ve made it this far, thanks for reading and thankyou in advance for any feedback you can give!

Tom.

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AndyT · 15 Dec 2017

I'm not a professional joiner, but as I read your post I was remembering windows at school or in church halls that were fitted with the sort of fasteners you linked to, with a loop of endless cord. So I think they would be ideal for the job.
I can also remember a more solid system with a long shaft fixed to the wall, with gears at each end, and a removable handle. It was more robust but probably not appropriate for a domestic environment.
So I think you have found the right things.

Eric The Viking · 16 Dec 2017

Tom,

Those are rather a delight to the eye!

I have a variation on what Andy has suggested fitted to the skylight above our stairwell. Also from Ironmongery Direct, I used one of these:

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/screw-jack-skylight-stay-300mm-polished-brass-686808

So far it's been very good but it's beginning to squeak a bit (after around 15 years) as it's very hard to get at safely for cleaning and lubrication - your site wouldn't have that problem.

As I see it, the difficulty with all of the central-leadscrew type is the slope to the ceiling close to the frame. Ours closes so that the bar is at right angles to the frame, and I think it might foul the ceiling in your case. Also the angle would make working the handle remotely very hard. The cord operated one would be brilliant, but you might have the same problem (unless you restrict the opening so the bar is shorter). The Leggatt ones might avoid fouling the ceiling, because of the quadrant, and they get round the problem of balancing the forces with side-fixed mechanisms.

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/leggott-fanlight-opener-black-manganese-971906

I'm not sure about the black finish though!

The only other worry would be that it's a holiday let - if the cord breaks the window might be stuck open or closed, and there's a whole load of silly stuff now from the health and safety fascists about corded curtains (where the cord is a loop, as children, apparently, might choke themselves - by that measure, teaspoons must be thought of as highly dangerous too).

I see Ironmongery Direct stock endless cords, but you still have to dismantle the mech to fit them (or cut and remake the joint in situ, which could be awkward). I have done one of those endless cords, with a soldering iron, but it was thinner for a roller blind (it did work very well, though).

Legatt would be my favourite, I think, as long as it fits and can be maintained.

Thanks for posting the pics, too. Nice to see.

Cheers, E.

dzj · 16 Dec 2017

See Roto tilt and turn mechanisms.
Use only the tilt function. Handle would be at ~1.8m from the floor.

lurker · 16 Dec 2017

A bit off topic but:

Window cords (mainly on window blinds) are responsible for more deaths to kids under 5 than are road accidents.

bench_monkey · 17 Dec 2017

First of all, thanks for the positive replies, great to see my post made a little sense!

AndyT/Eric - thanks for the input, hopefully our boss is seeing the customer (his friend) this weekend so I can talk him into getting a template of the bulkhead angle. The Legget system looks to be the nearest so far, I’ve used cords before and Lurker is right they are statistically dangerous. There is fittings to keep them taught and out of reach so I’m confident we can keep them out of harms way.

@dzj - brilliant suggestion thankyou, I’m going to get the purchaser to get some specs in the morning so I can plan to see if I can make them work!

Once again, thank you all.

If anyone is interested I may post a few pictures in the recently made thread as I’ve been lucky enough to have some nice jobs of late.

Really appreciate the help,

Tom.

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