Cedar cladding.....needs replacing due to wrong nails used

[ChrisGJ]

Hi

I'm new to the forum but equally new to almost any form of wood working! So hopefully you guys can offer some advice on this one for me

We've had our garden developed and had a raised bed built, which was then clad in cedar T&G. I told the builder about the need to have stainless steel nails, but unfortunately they "forgot"!

Anyway, they've refunded the cost of the cladding and now I'm going to refit with new cladding myself.

My 2 questions are;
- any suggestions on how to best remove the nails to allow me to take off the damaged cladding?
- I want to blind nail the new cladding so the finish looks cleaner, any tips on the best practice for that?

You can see from the photos that the bottom layer of cladding in now "set" in the patio, so that will have to stay, any ideas on to remove/lessen the marks?

I'm keen to do a great job on this but haven't done this kind of work before. Thanks for any advice!

Chris

 

[ChrisGJ]

Photos attached I think....

 

[MrYorke]

Not sure about the best way to remove the nails successfully. Perhaps "punch" the nails all the way through.

Justin's thing though. You said the builders refunded the cost of the cedar. But what about the labour cost?

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

You do realise that after weathering, the wood will turn grey anyway? If the grey is what you expect, then the nail stain is ugly, but otherwise, save yourself the work and use a cedar wood stain and cover it all. Just a thought before you commit to removing all the boards.

Mike.

 

[ChrisGJ]

Not sure about the best way to remove the nails successfully. Perhaps "punch" the nails all the way through.

Justin's thing though. You said the builders refunded the cost of the cedar. But what about the labour cost?

.....thanks for reply. Yes, also refunded the cost of the labour. They were going to refit the new cladding but still hadn't sorted the right nails....so was worried it wouldn't be right again.....so I said to forget it, I'll sort it.

 

[ChrisGJ]

Hello,

You do realise that after weathering, the wood will turn grey anyway? If the grey is what you expect, then the nail stain is ugly, but otherwise, save yourself the work and use a cedar wood stain and cover it all. Just a thought before you commit to removing all the boards.

Mike.

Thanks Mike. Yeh originally wanted to have the cedar weather to the grey.... But your idea of staining sounds a good one now though..... Do you think a stain would cover the black marks well enough?.... Wouldn't they come back through the stain?

 

[rafezetter]

It's worth thinking about what woodbrains said and save yourself the effort, but I also thought as MrYorke did about the cost of the labor to replace them - they botched it but only refunded part of the cost - the taking off as well as refitting will take twice as long as just fitting. It may be worth you just telling them to fix it at thier cost and you'll buy the replacement cladding.

If you really do want to remove them yourself - as opposed to puching them through, I doubt you can do it and leave the top capping in situ; I would suggest cutting through the boards just past the posts then levering off the stubs with the nails in after.

 

[CHJ]

Sidestepping the problem of your discoloured wood, how are you keeping the raised bed soil away from the brick wall ? Foresee some more obtrusive discoloration and problems with damp damage to the wall if no moisture barrier or air gap is provided.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

You do realise that after weathering, the wood will turn grey anyway? If the grey is what you expect, then the nail stain is ugly, but otherwise, save yourself the work and use a cedar wood stain and cover it all. Just a thought before you commit to removing all the boards.

Mike.

Thanks Mike. Yeh originally wanted to have the cedar weather to the grey.... But your idea of staining sounds a good one now though..... Do you think a stain would cover the black marks well enough?.... Wouldn't they come back through the stain?

Hello,

The nail staining is due to a reaction between the iron and the wood, so is literally wood bound and should not seep through a wood stain put on top. Ronseal I think actually do a grey wood stain, could be the answer if you get no joy from a full refund.

Mike.

 

[ChrisGJ]

Thanks everyone for the really helpful and quick replies! Much appreciated. I've kind of lost faith in them doing a good job of it now. So with the refunded cladding and fitting cost I'm kind of back to square one but with some potentially salvageable cladding in place!

The idea of staining is seeming a good one.

Re the moisture from the soil....they are concrete blocks so thought it would be ok?.... I could always put a membrane in between. Topsoil not coming until cladding sorted.

It's been frustrating cos they were great with the slate paving etc but this cladding idea seems to have been too much for them!!

 

[CHJ]

....
Re the moisture from the soil....they are concrete blocks so thought it would be ok?.... I could always put a membrane in between. Topsoil not coming until cladding sorted.

Rear Brick Wall?

 

[Benchwayze]

This is going to be a lot of work; but wouldn't it pay to remove the cladding, and then cut some plug holes alongside each nail hole, so the old holes are obliterated. Then cut some plugs and use passivated screws to hold the cladding in place. That would save you buying new cladding. Once it's weathered, you'd hardly notice the plugs.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You could try a blue/black dye rather than a wood coloured stain - once weathered it probably wouldn't show much. At the end of the day it's in your garden, not your living room.

 

[scgwhite]

I'd advise using stainless screws if you decide to replace the cladding. Cedar is quite aggressive and will corrode a regular fixing, particularly in a damp environment. I've recently finished 108m2 of cedar shingles on a roof and used stainless staples owing to fears of corrosion.

 

[ChrisGJ]

....
Re the moisture from the soil....they are concrete blocks so thought it would be ok?.... I could always put a membrane in between. Topsoil not coming until cladding sorted.

Rear Brick Wall?

CHJ you think any moisture would go right through to the other side of the wall? (Which is the street side) how would you create the barrier between soil and brick?

Thanks.

 

[ChrisGJ]

I've got the right stainless steel nails now in prep of redoing it all. The idea of staining it seems ok but then we lose the beautiful look of the cedar, which was the main reason for choosing it.

Assuming I can take it off ok, my plan was to ask the timber place to cut the new cedar to match the sizes of the pieces I take off. Then I want to blind nail the new cladding. Any tips for doing that in the best manner?

The top is also needed to be done (it's only glued on as they messed up that part too). It needs to be mitred, to look right, hopefully I can do that part too!

I know it's a balls up but quite looking forward to turning my hand to replace it. Hopefully my OCD can lead me to doing a good job!

Any tips most welcome! Thanks for your replies up to now.
Cheers
Chris

 

[ChrisGJ]

One last question.....I've looked up how to remove these black stains and oxalic acid seems to be the thing to use? Before I take it all off and commit to replacing it, do you think it's worth trying to get the marks off with oxalic acid?

thanks.

 

[mtr1]

The oxalic acid should remove some of the stain, it can remove iron stains in oak I have found, but never tried on cedar. It's cheap so give it a go, or just stain and move on.

 

[Benchwayze]

Chris.

I can only repeat, use plugs to hide the nails. If you don't want to go to the expense of buying a plug cutter, just use dowels. For dowels, counter-bore with a 10mm drill bit, and nail or screw the boards through the holes, finally plugging the hole with a dowel. Sheradised fixings at least should be used, but you'd probably get away with any of the rust-proof fixings. For instance, Kreg screws would be fine, and they hold like fury. Over time you will hardly notice the plug/dowel as the cedar weathers, and even if you do, they will look better than the stains. One 50mm dowel will probably fill two or three holes, if you cut them off with a flush saw.

HTH

John

 

[CHJ]

CHJ you think any moisture would go right through to the other side of the wall? (Which is the street side) how would you create the barrier between soil and brick?

Thanks.

Anything that stops soil moisture wicking into the brickwork.
Last time I did similar I used some reclaimed corrugated plastic sheeting on edge, had the added advantage of allowing the bellow ground wall to breathe.