Calling all kitchen fitters - advice sought.

[Monkey Mark]

Afternoon all. I'll apologise in advance as this will probably be a long post.

Our house is 31 years old, the kitchen within is 20 years old. As you can imagine, at 20 it's looking pretty rubbish. To be honest, it was terrible anyway. I think it must have been fitted by stevie wonder. There are gaps between carcasses and I'm not talking mm. One is about 3 inches and another about 8 inches. The wall cupboards, only two of them, have no trim around the top and are about 5mm from the ceiling meaning the top shelf is out of reach for the wife. It was obviously planned very badly and executed even worse.

Now, money is tight, always is, but I can't put up with it any more. The only way it will get done is if I do it myself and try to be clever with the budget which got me thinking.

Chances are the wife will want quite plain/modern doors so I was thinking of making these myself as they seem to make up a large chunk of cost of pre made kitchens. I was thinking mrmdf and some sort of gloss/semi gloss finish.

Is it cheaper to buy the carcuses or build your own? She fancies a nice angle floor to ceiling corner unit she's seen in wickes, but it's stupidly expensive so I'd probably make that myself but not sure on the rest regarding cost.

I think she wants solid worktops and have draining board and hot-rods incorporated.

As a simple diyer I've never tried anything like this before. I've fitted kitchens but they were off the shelf jobies. So, any tips, advice, suggestions are welcome as is any links to decent sites or videos on this. (I know I could search YouTube, but wouldn't know the good from the bad).

There's no set budget as there's no set time so it could be put off for longer to increase budget.

Any thoughts guys?

 

[woodpig]

I must admit I've not fitted any kitchen units for a long time but the most expensive part were the doors, at least in solid wood. The carcasses were really quite cheap. Personally I dislike MDF but I suppose the water resistant stuff may do you if you really want to use it. Before you decide though check out the "in stock" "trade" range of kitchens at places like Magnet.

 

[kostello]

If money is tight..... One word...





IKEA

For the money you can't beat it...

If fitted well will last as long as any other kitchen...



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[RobinBHM]

carcases are easy to make, if you have the means to cut sheets. I would say a track saw would be vital.

Sheet choices for kitchen carcases are usually, melamine faced chipboard, mdf, birch plywood, solid pine board.

Melamine faced chipboard is a good material, cheap and wipe clean surface. To get a good price you ideally need to obtain a few jumbo sheets. Brand names are egger and kronospan. Suppliers arr peopke like meyers, timber depot, lathams etc

Pine board is sold in 18mm, it can be bought from ebay sellers.

I would use plastic plinth feet and drill the carcases for adjustable shelving.

As a guide:Standard base and wall units are 720mm high.

Base unit, 720mm carcase + 150mm plinth + 40mm top = 910mm

Distance between base and wall units, about 450mm or to suit 6inch tiles.

I would avoid a gloss finish, very difficult to achieve.

If you make the kitchen with end panels etc, then the carcases can simply be screwed together, maybe with confirmat screws.

You could try howdens or ikea for carcases. Ikea of course are very different on sizing, 800mm high with small plinths from memory

 

[Woodmonkey]

Sorry can't offer much advice but will watch with interest as I am more or less in the same boat. Fwiw I think I'm tending toward buying the carcasses and making the doors, as by the time I've taken time of work and paid for the materials I don't think I would save much my making them from scratch

 

[blackrodd]

I'm not a kitchen fitter but I do fit kitchen's sometimes.
I would go for the easy and no doubt cheaper, faster option and buy rigid units and make the doors, if you want.
To make it all your'self, You will need time and plenty of working space, some experience in planning and marking out is needed, Will you have the tools and equipment needed for the job too.
As money is tight, you could change the base units and worktop, and replace the wall cabinets and tiling later
Regards Rodders

 

[AJB Temple]

There is an alternative that may be appropriate, depending on how large the kitchen is. For a long time people have been using manufactured MDF kitchen carcasses that are built to standard sizes. But thee is no reason why you have to build in this way. If the walls are in good condition (or can be put that way) then you can build out the entire under counter kitchen by battening off the walls (to support tops and shelves) and making framework. This can deliver a great deal of flexibility and a bespoke look that fits absolutely perfectly. Making and fitting the battens, shelves and framing is a straightforward job and most of your budget can go into the doors and worktops. I fitted out a large utility room (bigger than most kitchens) in this way, with all doors in planked oak, handles made by the coal smith, and the work surfaces and a bench were all made from 40mm thick iroko. It included fitting a butlers sink and enabled me to custom make cupboards to hide way washing machines, tumble dryer and a large boiler.

If you plan carefully it can be a very flexible approach and make the storage space more flexible, more spacious and easier to clean. You have the advantage that you already live there so you have total flexibility on the design and can take your time as long as basic facilities remain in place.

 

[HOJ]

This may help, a current price from a well known trade supplier, the numbers at the end of each line is the £price + VAT.

This is going into a rented cottage, I checked out B and Q prices which came out about the same,
as you can see not much there in the way of units, includes doors, but soon adds up.

1 SNK5161 Lamona Ashworth 1.5 bowl rev & waste 65.00 100.10
1 PLU2000 1.5 Dbl Plumbing Kit/App Conn 65.00 15.75
1 TAP4032 Lamona Velino tap 65.00 61.60
1 WKP2260 Blackstone 3mm B/nose 3m 616 38 W/top 65.00 70.35 F
2 WKP2295 Blackstone 1.4m Edging Strip 65.00 6.36
1 WKP2266 Blackstone 3mm B/nose 3.6m 616 38 W/top 65.00 80.85 F
1 ZZD39 Delivery 0.00 80.00
1 HJS9793 Kitchen Installation Manual September 14 0.00 0.00
1 CGW9141 Contract Gls White 600 3 Dwr Base Cream Cab 65.00 79.10 F
1 CGW9200 Contract Gls White 300 Hi-Line Base Cream Cab 65.00 50.75 F
2 CGW9270 Contract Gls White 1000 Hi-Line Base Cream Cab 65.00 165.20 F
1 CGW9600 Contract Gls White 600 Built Under Oven Housing Base 65.00 55.65 F
Cream Cab
2 CGW991A Contract Gls White Cornice/Pelmet Square Profile 2.4m 85.00 21.30 F
3 CGW9920 Contract Gls White Continuous Plinth 2.75m 85.00 35.10 F
5 CGW9933 Contract Gls White 910 Base Decor End 85.00 79.50 F
3 CGW9944 Contract Gls White 752 Full Height Wall Decor End 85.00 42.30 F
1 CGW9991 Contract Gls White Edging Pack 85.00 1.69 F
2 CGW9496 Contract Gls White 600 Half Height Wall Cream Cab 65.00 116.90 F
1 LAM1703 Lamona Black Ceramic Hob Black Knobs 77.10 150.00
1 LAM3403 Lamona Black Fan Oven 78.45 150.00
1 CGW9220 Contract Gls White 500 Hi-Line Base Cream Cab 65.00 58.80 F

 

[Zeddedhed]

A standard 600mm wide base unit can easily be made from a single standard sheet of MDF, or MR MDF.
A set of 4 plastic cabinet legs is currently about £1.75 from ironmongery Direct
A pair of reasonable 35mm cabinet hinges will set you back about £6.

So if you're not costing in your time then a base cabinet can be made for between £28 - £35 depending on what rates you get for MR MDF.

With a tracksaw it can be cut up and assembled in under 1/2 an hour.

Obviously that's not the full story but it may help (or not!!)

 

[Woodmonkey]

A standard 600mm wide base unit can easily be made from a single standard sheet of MDF, or MR MDF.
A set of 4 plastic cabinet legs is currently about £1.75 from ironmongery Direct
A pair of reasonable 35mm cabinet hinges will set you back about £6.

So if you're not costing in your time then a base cabinet can be made for between £28 - £35 depending on what rates you get for MR MDF.

With a tracksaw it can be cut up and assembled in under 1/2 an hour.

Obviously that's not the full story but it may help (or not!!)

Don't forget you've turn got to paint it if using MDF, more time and money. You can get an mfc carcass for not much more than that, my local selco I seem to remember about £45

 

[skipdiver]

I've made the kitchens for all my houses but then i have a workshop and the facilities to do it. I'm also a joiner and kitchen fitter, so that helps. There is a lot of time, effort and planning to get a bespoke kitchen from the ideas stage to a finished professional looking kitchen. I did simple MRMDF doors last time with just a small roundover on the edges to give a "slab" door look and there is a hell of a lot of prepping, sanding and painting to get them looking good. You then need the facility to accurately sink the cabinet hinges into them. I would think long and hard before setting off down this route because you need the knowledge, time, space and quite a bit of equipment to see it through. If however you decide you want to give it a go, then there are lots of knowledgeable people on here to give you some pointers.

 

[RobinBHM]

I pay about £45 or for basic woodgrain mfc. Thats a 2800 x 2070 sheet, so would make 2 or so carcases. Contract white would be a bit cheaper.

If you do a full cutting list and a cut plan first, a set of carcases wouldnt take long to knock up. Making your means bespoke sizes which may be handy.

 

[lurker]

I am far from an expert but here is my 2 penny worth
Wickes are none standard size so you are trapped once you buy there.

Around end Jan B & q will have a sale
I tarted up our kitchen for less than £500 year before last with b & q doors, drawer units and hard ware from tool station plus work tops from wickes.
Unless you are trade you are wasting your time at magnet
Bases are pretty much the same wherever you go and once fitted you can't actually see much.
For a touch of class fit Blum hinges and soft closers
Fit the manky Mdf shelves with wood lips or replace with something prettier.
I made a couple of shallow sided trays in place of some shelves and they are a great hit with her indoors

IKEA is very good but you need to buy all at once and have a van to get it all home
If you have to factor in a lost day plus 50 mile round trip you may as well buy closer to home.

 

[beganasatree]

Hi MonkeyMark,
I have been fitting kitchens for more than 30 years now and I would second all that Skipdiver has said.

Peter

 

[Monkey Mark]

Thanks for all the replies and advice, a lot of info here and many things to think about.

A little more info on my situation.
With regards to taking time off to do the work, it shouldn't be an issue. I work within education so in the summer i get 7 weeks off. Plenty of time I would hope.
Tools and equipment. I don't have a tracksaw, but I do have a guide I made up for my circular saw and I have a work-site grade table saw. I also have a garage which conveniently connects to the house via a door into the kitchen so I can get things in and out to work on and still be out of the elements and storage would be nice and close to location. I may even send the family off for a week or two in the caravan so I wouldn't have to worry about amenities.

I'll have to have a good think. I may go for pre-made carcasses I think unless the wife decides on a one-off layout. She still hasn't decided exactly what she wants or if she definitely wants the washer moving into the garage to make more space as storage is the main issue in the kitchen as it is. Another consideration would be the worktops; They would go along three walls so, as long as the weight is ok, I may consider a concrete worktop so as to be seamless but it would have to be poured in situ due to shape or maybe an over screed version which would be lighter but not as hard wearing. Again, not looked into costs for that yet.

 

[mseries]

I have a question about fitting work tops. Those small pieces at the back that stand up in front of the wall, are the simply biscuitted and glued on ?, before or after fitting the work top ?

 

[RobinBHM]

Upstands are best be done after the worktops are in place

Gripfill probably or if walls are not too clever then screwed and plugged

 

[Lons]

I've fitted a lot of kitchens over the years though retired this year.

I've tried most of them including Wickes, Ikea, B&Q, a lot from Howdens, made up my own carcases and during the past 6 years I've bought in carcases from local companies to my bespoke measurements and bought vinyl wrap doors from Browns 2000 (Cramlington, Northumberland) who will make any size including curved doors and matching panels plynths and cornice etc. I know a good carcase manufacturer, only small but reliable based in Cramlington though you would probably need to collect as delivery to Durham could be expensive.

Personally if I had to make some of it I'd make the carcases to fit the space exactly to my own design and buy in the doors to suit. It's the doors that make or break the kitchen and it's what your wife will notice most as well.
You can buy panels from NESP who aren't too far from you and they are distributors for solid surface worktops as well. I've fitted a number of their Mistral worktops including my own kitchen / utility.

You need to open an account with both NESP and Browns to get discounts though they will both want payment up front but not difficult to blag up some details to get the accounts. Mine was as a ligit business but they're happy to sell to most people.

pm me if you need advice.

Bob

 

[AJB Temple]

Making a concrete worktop in situ is practical and pretty cheap and there are a lot of internet resources and videos out there on the subject. I have only made one but it was successful though took ages to polish and boy did it create a lot of mess. You will need pretty solid framework. I would also practice on a small one first so you can be sure you get your edge framers off cleanly without chipping out. Worth putting some time into researching commercial mixes too.

 

[kostello]

Thanks for all the replies and advice, a lot of info here and many things to think about.

A little more info on my situation.
With regards to taking time off to do the work, it shouldn't be an issue. I work within education so in the summer i get 7 weeks off. Plenty of time I would hope.


t.

My experience of trying to get stuff done while my family is in the house is that you only get to work half the time.....

The other half is filled with... Dad dad look at this... And darling can you just....



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