Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
This was todays work:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... 82%29.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... 82%29.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Building Wegner's "The Chair" .
- Thread starter Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
- Start date
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xy mosian
Established Member
Nicely done Derek.
xy
xy
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Sanding, gluing and a coat of finish as the legs and stretchers come together ..
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... seOne.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... seOne.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Here is the work completed today ..
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... krest.html
I do have a question for all. Please have a look at the area where the finger joints will be. I am interested in your opinion in regard to the run out here - will it be strong enough (the finger joint will use epoxy)? Photos are near the end.
Regards from Perth
Derek
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... krest.html
I do have a question for all. Please have a look at the area where the finger joints will be. I am interested in your opinion in regard to the run out here - will it be strong enough (the finger joint will use epoxy)? Photos are near the end.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Anyone reading this stuff?
This will give a good idea of what is planned for the arm-backrest joint. There are areas about which I would appreciate your comments.
Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... t1%29.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
This will give a good idea of what is planned for the arm-backrest joint. There are areas about which I would appreciate your comments.
Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... t1%29.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
lanemaux
In Memorium
Reading , certainly. Commenting , aside from Wow or far out man , little I could add. I am a man well aware of his limitations and therefore will just sit here and admire thanks.
xy mosian
Established Member
A braver man than I am Derek, great stuff. As for the fingers I prefer the pointy version, it looks more 'crafted' somehow. But don't I recall an image of, at least, a similar chair with more points?
xy
xy
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
This follows quickly on from the last post. Decisions to be made. Your ideas are wanted ..
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... t2%29.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... t2%29.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Racers
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Do you have a template for the both sides? if so are you planning to drill from both sides?
I think its the most tricky part to make, getting all those fingers the right length, right angle and in line will be hell.
I would do it like the early ones butt joint and a loose dowel and live with the guilt!
Pete
I think its the most tricky part to make, getting all those fingers the right length, right angle and in line will be hell.
I would do it like the early ones butt joint and a loose dowel and live with the guilt!
Pete
xy mosian
Established Member
Drilling a hole square to the surface by hand? How about a V-block so often advised for people drilling dog holes in bench tops. Perhaps even drilling from both sides. I'll try to find a link.
xy
xy
xy mosian
Established Member
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Hi xy
That is very helpful. My thought at the moment is to saw a vee, and clamp the 3/16" guide from the #59 inside it. That way I can achieve a vertical and not cause any wear that will affect the accuracy.
Regards from Perth
Derek
That is very helpful. My thought at the moment is to saw a vee, and clamp the 3/16" guide from the #59 inside it. That way I can achieve a vertical and not cause any wear that will affect the accuracy.
Regards from Perth
Derek
xy mosian
Established Member
At 3/16" diameter is it safe to assume that you will be using a Jobbers style twist bit? If so you'll need a long one, but you know that already. If you are using an auger, I've not seen one less than 1/4", then watch out for the body of the thing being a smaller diameter than the cutting edges. This is seldom very much but may be sufficient to throw off a long hole if any guide is used. I apologise if I am trying to teach Grandma egg sucking techniques.
xy
xy
Thinking about your need to imitate by hand those machined spline joints... a while back there was a discussion about making somewhat similar joints in snooker cues and I posted an old Woodworker article on how to make them. Not exactly the same but in case it stimulates an idea... https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post747322.html#p747322
custard
Established Member
Derek, are you absolutely determined to replicate that particular joint? The reason I ask is that it has "spindle moulder with a factory jig" written all over it! I'm sure that somewhere in the design/manufacturing process there was a handmade prototype that would have had a more traditional joint, and I don't think you'd be giving anything up if you followed that route, I'm equally sure that if that prototype ever surfaced at an auction the market would endorse that view with a breathtaking price!
An other option would be to fabricate the jig for a local joinery company with similar tooling to run it through their spindle moulder. The skill for a joint like that is 100% in the jig making rather than the actual cut, so again no disgrace going that route.
One final point (excuse the pun) is that the "pointy fingered" version has a serious problem in that the feather edges are very vulnerable and if they crumble or split off then you've no way of avoiding a gappy glue line. It's virtually certain that there will be some short grain close to the point, which would make a breakage pretty inevitable.
An other option would be to fabricate the jig for a local joinery company with similar tooling to run it through their spindle moulder. The skill for a joint like that is 100% in the jig making rather than the actual cut, so again no disgrace going that route.
One final point (excuse the pun) is that the "pointy fingered" version has a serious problem in that the feather edges are very vulnerable and if they crumble or split off then you've no way of avoiding a gappy glue line. It's virtually certain that there will be some short grain close to the point, which would make a breakage pretty inevitable.
custard":1s5hvzlg said:
A thread from another forum that could prove helpful:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... comb-joint
This book would probably prove helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Danish-Chairs-Nor ... ish+chairs
custard
Established Member
Derek, I missed a point earlier, what's your plan for cramping during the glue-up? I see you've done a fair bit of shaping already, I'd hold off on anymore shaping until the jointing is complete as it just makes cramping that bit trickier.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Hi Custard
Clamping is no problem as the section for the joint is squared.
Give some thought to the complimentary finger that has to receive a rounded end. The difficulty is not just the drilling of the hole (to create the one round), but the rounding of the finger (to fit).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Clamping is no problem as the section for the joint is squared.
Give some thought to the complimentary finger that has to receive a rounded end. The difficulty is not just the drilling of the hole (to create the one round), but the rounding of the finger (to fit).
Regards from Perth
Derek
custard
Established Member
Hello Derek,
I've looked again at the design and talked it over with some far better craftsmen than I, and here's the feedback.
1. Cramping up isn't completely straightforward because it'll need pressure in two directions, vertically via a G clamp (or similar) which is easy enough, but also pressure along the axis of the arm, probably via a sash cramp. There will probably need to be bearing blocks temporarily glued or cramped on to allow the sash cramps to do their job.
2. The general consensus was to do the job with a spindle moulder as per the original, however it was possible, but very tricky, to do it by hand. The preferred hand methods fell into two camps.
3. The first was that with accurate marking out it's not then dissimilar in difficulty to a tricky dovetail, and with careful paring and meticulous checking it should be possible to deliver fair to good glue lines. The problem, as you've no doubt recognised, is that it's a bit like cutting the sockets on a half lap dovetail in that there's no room for adjustment, if it isn't right first time then there's going to be a gap and all you can do is decide if the gap will be on the left of the joint or on the right.
4. The second camp was to laminate the joint, which in turn fell into two separate options. The first was to construct the joint with loose tenons or dominos but make it about 6mm narrower than the final dimension. Then to wrap a 3mm vertical laminate around both the inside and outside of the arm, with the desired joint pre-cut and pre-assembled, but only in the laminated section. The logic being that it's much easier to construct this joint in a 3mm thick piece than in a 50mm thick piece. You could then continue shaping the arm. The down side is you risk a wide and ragged glue line along the angled back, but this could be mitigating by using a tintable adhesive like a cold press veneer glue. The second laminating option was to stack one on top of each other a series of laminates that correspond in thickness to one half of each "finger". This makes it much easier to cut and fit the joint as it becomes "open". So think of it as series of scarf joints stacked one on top of the other. The downside is that you'd lose a kerf's width of timber sawing each laminate, in straight grained material it wouldn't much matter, but with wilder grain there would be a series of "steps" as diagonal grain jumped across the kerf.
Hope that's useful. Good luck!
I've looked again at the design and talked it over with some far better craftsmen than I, and here's the feedback.
1. Cramping up isn't completely straightforward because it'll need pressure in two directions, vertically via a G clamp (or similar) which is easy enough, but also pressure along the axis of the arm, probably via a sash cramp. There will probably need to be bearing blocks temporarily glued or cramped on to allow the sash cramps to do their job.
2. The general consensus was to do the job with a spindle moulder as per the original, however it was possible, but very tricky, to do it by hand. The preferred hand methods fell into two camps.
3. The first was that with accurate marking out it's not then dissimilar in difficulty to a tricky dovetail, and with careful paring and meticulous checking it should be possible to deliver fair to good glue lines. The problem, as you've no doubt recognised, is that it's a bit like cutting the sockets on a half lap dovetail in that there's no room for adjustment, if it isn't right first time then there's going to be a gap and all you can do is decide if the gap will be on the left of the joint or on the right.
4. The second camp was to laminate the joint, which in turn fell into two separate options. The first was to construct the joint with loose tenons or dominos but make it about 6mm narrower than the final dimension. Then to wrap a 3mm vertical laminate around both the inside and outside of the arm, with the desired joint pre-cut and pre-assembled, but only in the laminated section. The logic being that it's much easier to construct this joint in a 3mm thick piece than in a 50mm thick piece. You could then continue shaping the arm. The down side is you risk a wide and ragged glue line along the angled back, but this could be mitigating by using a tintable adhesive like a cold press veneer glue. The second laminating option was to stack one on top of each other a series of laminates that correspond in thickness to one half of each "finger". This makes it much easier to cut and fit the joint as it becomes "open". So think of it as series of scarf joints stacked one on top of the other. The downside is that you'd lose a kerf's width of timber sawing each laminate, in straight grained material it wouldn't much matter, but with wilder grain there would be a series of "steps" as diagonal grain jumped across the kerf.
Hope that's useful. Good luck!
