Building a deck

[KevB]

Hi guys

I'm planning on building a deck in the near future and I was hoping you guys could give me some advice and maybe help me out with some questions along the way.

The deck will be around 4.8m x 3.6m and it'll be fully railed with a gate, to keep the kiddies in Built on a slope and attached to our extension. I'm planning on fixing a ledger to the wall (leaving a gap) and then leveling the post bearers from that.

I've roughly set the ledger in place and marked out the area so as you guys can see the slope and how close I will be to the fence. Here's some pics..

As you can see, it will be really close to the neighbours fence. How will I go about putting the framework together in this area, without drill access along the outer side facing the fence?

Also, where the ledger is sitting at the moment, it's too close to the dpc (80mm). I will have to lower it by a brick or two, meaning digging into and removing some of the slope. How much of a gap would you say needs to be below the ledger and the ground? (aeration).

If I were using a full decking board (without cutting any off the length), whether it be 4.8m board left to right or a 3.6m board back to front. Would I make the framework below slightly smaller so as the skirting (decking boards) sit flush with the slightly overhanging boards on the deck?

 

[Brentingby]

I wouldn't run the deck that close to the fence. Instead, leave it flush with the corner of the house or bring it to the right slightly. If you extend it all the way to the fence, you'll have more problems than attaching the joist to the ledger.

Lower the raised ground enough next to the house so you can put the ledger at the right height. Slope the rest away from the house. Remove all the grass and cover that ground with plastic film and gravel or some landscaping stone to keep the weeds from growing under the deck.

Make the deck frame the same size as the deck. Then you can add a skirting board that covers the end grain of the deck boards.

 

[Paul200]

Hi Kev - all of the above, plus if you still have a problem attaching joists you could use joist hangers - no-one will see them. And you could leave off the skirting along that end, it would all help ventilation.

Cheers

Paul

 

[KevB]

I wouldn't run the deck that close to the fence. Instead, leave it flush with the corner of the house or bring it to the right slightly. If you extend it all the way to the fence, you'll have more problems than attaching the joist to the ledger.

Lower the raised ground enough next to the house so you can put the ledger at the right height. Slope the rest away from the house. Remove all the grass and cover that ground with plastic film and gravel or some landscaping stone to keep the weeds from growing under the deck.

Make the deck frame the same size as the deck. Then you can add a skirting board that covers the end grain of the deck boards.

Thanks for the reply Brentingby

If I were to do it this way, would water get trapped in between the framework and skirting? I was thinking that if the deck boards were overhanging the skirting slightly, the rainwater would drip off and not get trapped..?

Also, thinking about - trying to lay the boards without cutting any length, as I originally planned. Do you guys think this is a good idea? As the framework would have to be spot on below, so as none of the boards come up short in any area.. Unless I used the overhanging method, with the skirting sitting underneath and slightly back - and hiding any slight imperfections in the dimensions of the frame. This would mean the end grain would be showing though hmm?

Hi Kev - all of the above, plus if you still have a problem attaching joists you could use joist hangers - no-one will see them. And you could leave off the skirting along that end, it would all help ventilation.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul, been a while since I've been on here. I did get my shed finished in the end and will have to get around to posting some pics

Ok mate, i'll have another look at it and decide on how to build the side by the fence. If I wanted to stay that close, I could maybe use hangers like you say, as well as bolts with the holes drilled through from the inside, notching the outer side of the frame for the bolts before I fit it. Should easily be able to fit down there with a ratchet spanner. But then I could have even more problems trying to fit the railing. I'll have to have another look at it.. :roll:

 

[Brentingby]

If I were to do it this way, would water get trapped in between the framework and skirting?[/url]

It shouldn't be a problem. There should be a small gap between the ends of the decking boards and the skirting.

I was thinking that if the deck boards were overhanging the skirting slightly, the rainwater would drip off and not get trapped..?

You could do this but as noted, it leaves the end grain exposed. If you are using softwood for the decking the exposed ends would be rather ugly and delicate after a bit of exposure to the elements. There's a video at this link advertising the virtues of a tropical hardwood for decking. You don't have to watch it but look at the image. The boards on the right show what happens to the end grain with exposure when the ends are unprotected. I had a recent experience with a splinter from and old deck board under a finger nail. Not my most favorite memory of the year.

If you don't want to bring the skirting up as in my sketch, you could also plan to run a decking board across the ends with a mitre where it meets the outermost deck board. It'll look like the deck is in a frame.

 

[xy mosian]

Run the top surface parallel to the house wall. Then there is some grip for ladders especially if the deck is wet or damp.
xy.

 

[NazNomad]

Run the top surface parallel to the house wall. Then there is some grip for ladders especially if the deck is wet or damp.

+1 for that. My neighbour ran his perpendicular to the house, bloody death trap in the wet.

 

[MARK.B.]

If you are planning to use full boards straight from the timber yard (or god forbid one of the diy stores ) be aware that they can and often do vary in length ,some can be shorter or longer than the stated length . If you do need to cut them be sure to treat the exposed ends to try and slow down any rotting . I dont think you need to lower the ledger as you will be leaving a small gap between the wall and the deck so you are not breaching the dpm in any way and if you lower it you are just creating a bigger step up or down. As Brentingby says above run a slight fall away from the house. When you clear away the grass under where the deck will be, dont scrimp on the cost of decent weed prevention covering ( once the deck is laid its a bugger to try and stop the weeds ) i would advise treating the area with a decent weed killer as soon as you have cleared it and then give it another treatment just before you put down the weed barrier . Do you build up to the fence or not is down to your choice/reasons ,i would square it off from the house wall it makes installation a bit easier (also future maintainence of both deck and fence) also imho it will look as though you have made it to measure rather than just building to available board length.

 

[KevB]

Hi guys. Thanks again for the replies and thanks for the video Brentingby, it's much appreciated.

Brentingby - That could be an idea about the mitred edge. I'll have a look around online and see how others have done their edges for a better idea of how it will look. The easiest way is to just have the boards overhanging, but like you say the end grain will be exposed and I really don't like the looks of those boards in the video :mrgreen:

MARK.B. - At the moment I've mainly been looking in the diy stores for materials - B&Q, Wickes, places like that. Does anybody know if it's generally cheaper to look in timber yards and are the materials usually better quality?

Also, does the handrails, baserails, spindles and rail posts need to be of the exact same wood/finish/colour as the deck boards? If they arent' and I had to treat everything anyways - would it all stain to a matching finish?

Lastly - Do I stain/treat everything once it is all built or do it as I go along? Like railings - Do I treat these before fitting them into position, spindles before fixing to hand/baserail etc?

 

[Brentingby]

Also, does the handrails, baserails, spindles and rail posts need to be of the exact same wood/finish/colour as the deck boards? If they arent' and I had to treat everything anyways - would it all stain to a matching finish?

They don't have to be made of the same material and they don't have to match. Getting different woods to match with stain can be done but it's probably not a good use of your time since the stain will need to be refreshed from time to time. It might be better to make an intentional contrast. Stain on the deck and paint on the rails or maybe vinyl for the rails.

Lastly - Do I stain/treat everything once it is all built or do it as I go along? Like railings - Do I treat these before fitting them into position, spindles before fixing to hand/baserail etc?

Most people do the staining and such after the deck is built although it would be easier to get to surfaces such as the edges of the deck boards if you do it before laying them. Think about where you have to work and what you have to reach.

I know of several professionals who stain/ treat decks using a hand-pumped sprayer such as the type you would use to spray weeds. That makes it much faster to get the stain on.

 

[woodenstx]

Run the top surface parallel to the house wall. Then there is some grip for ladders especially if the deck is wet or damp.

+1 for that. My neighbour ran his perpendicular to the house, bloody death trap in the wet.

Ours its perpendicular to the house (it was in the middle of the garden prior to the addition of a conservatory), and its sodding scary in winter/wet weather

I'm going to look at removing it and building a new one with parallel boards soon as its so cheap to do so.

 

[Chrispy]

If it helps here's my experience of building my own deck, I put mine down parallel to the house and regret it, it makes it difficult to sweep out the groves and clear water I see where you are coming from with ladders but that's solvable, as for slippery well clean it! the second thing I did wrong was to put the skirting round covering the end grain, again it makes cleaning near impossible, it would be so easy to just sweep the dirt straight off the edge of the deck it also it stops water draining off the ends of the grooves. and forget about not wanting the patio table to rock put a good fall on it to again help it drain.

 

[Paul200]

Hi Paul, been a while since I've been on here. I did get my shed finished in the end and will have to get around to posting some pics

Ok mate, i'll have another look at it and decide on how to build the side by the fence. If I wanted to stay that close, I could maybe use hangers like you say, as well as bolts with the holes drilled through from the inside, notching the outer side of the frame for the bolts before I fit it. Should easily be able to fit down there with a ratchet spanner. But then I could have even more problems trying to fit the railing. I'll have to have another look at it.. :roll:

Hi again Kev. I wondered what happened with your shed. I think we all go through spates of activity/non activity mate - usually getting involved when you've got a project on the go :wink: I usually look in at least once a week though.

Even though I skirted around my deck to cover the end grain, I think, having read comments on here, that it's probably a better idea to leave the edges open, which I think was your preferred option anyway. How are you building the railings Kev? Mine was just a 3x2 bottom rail with 38x38 square spindles screwed to it and a handrail plonked on top and screwed on the skew from the bottom. This was all attached to 4x4 posts at intervals, which were fixed to the framework below with coach screws before the deck went down.

Nice to hear from you buddy

Paul

 

[KevB]

Thanks for that Brentingby. Ok mate i'll take that into account when i'm building and make sure all the awkward areas are done as I go along.

Brentingby, Paul200 - I was thinking about using those power coated aluminium tubes with hidden fittings for the railings, though I cant seem to find them anywhere, especially at an acceptable price. Now I'm thinking about a straight forward square modern type wooden railing with square wooden spindles and maybe painted white against the brown decking..

I need to make and fit a gate in there somehow as well. Probably all put together in the same way as you did yours Paul, something that is fairly easy to do.

Chrispy - Thanks for the advice mate. My original idea was to use 3.6m boards running away from the house and on a very slight incline, but this goes against some of the advice the guys have gave here. Saying that though, I cant see us ever using the deck in the wet and I do have another access to the rear of the house.

Or I could go 4.6m boards parallel to the house, meaning less end grains and also not so visible from the garden area, as they would be overhanging to the fence side and opposite. I do think I will have them overhanging as it does seem easier to do and will cover any slight mistakes with the dimensions of the frame below.

I'm going to draw my plans out over the weekend to give me a much better idea of what the deck is going to be like, bearer post positions, railing post positions, gate, framework below, deck board spacings etc.

Say I went with 4.6m boards and parallel to the house. How do I create the slight incline (drainage) left to right?

Lastly, any suggestions on what fixings/sizes for fixing the ledger board to the house? There seems to be so many out there.

 

[jnw010]

Composite decking is always straight, won't rot, and doesn't need staining or oiling.
Just sayin. :wink:

 

[xy mosian]

I am not sure of your intentions with regard to rails etc., to prevent folk falling off. Remember if whatever system you use has a base rail fixed to the deck the any grooves in the top deck surface will clog, beneath the base rail. You may consider any verticles, in the fencing, being long enough to pass by the decking and being fixed to the underframe. This will do away with a base rail and allow space for water to run off.
xy

 

[KevB]

xy - I'm planning on fixing the rail posts to the underframe and then up through the deck. The base rail will be raised a few inches from the deck boards to allow for drainage and cleaning.

I'm about to plan/draw it all out over the weekend. I would have liked to have started work on it by now, but the council still hasen't got back to me about being over the 300mm max height from ground. Three weeks ago I sent the email!

So if ive read right, I should have a 2mm drop for every meter. If i'm running this drop from left to right, how do I do this? Does this mean the ledger board is fixed onto the wall with this drop in it? Is the ledger board and the opposite board the only things I have to take into account with this slope in them? No fancy cuts or anything elsewhere to make sure everything screws together properly, or will the difference not be noticed?

 

[KevB]

Ok so I've just read that it doesn't really need to be sloped as the gaps in the boards do a good enough job. I'd rather not slope it to be honest.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[No skills]

My thought is you need to be careful what you read on the Internet

You want the deck to shed water the same as a patio or other hard standing area.

Don't skimp when you attach the rail posts to the joists, butt up extra noggins/timber blocks as best you can, this will reduce any movement at the top of the rail posts, wobbly handrails isn't an attractive feature on a deck

 

[KevB]

My thought is you need to be careful what you read on the Internet

You want the deck to shed water the same as a patio or other hard standing area.

Don't skimp when you attach the rail posts to the joists, butt up extra noggins/timber blocks as best you can, this will reduce any movement at the top of the rail posts, wobbly handrails isn't an attractive feature on a deck

Thanks for that No skills. I think i'm going to sandwich in all of the rail posts so as, like you say, reducing the movement as much as possible.

Yeah, I've just been looking around again there on various forums/sites and there seems to be mixed opinion on the slope. Some saying that the installation of the railings/stairs could become tricky with a sloped deck. But yeah, the last thing I want is water in the house.

If the boards are parallel to the house, does this mean the pitch runs in the same direction or away from the house?

I've never built a deck before and the pitch is bothering me a little if I'm honest. I'd usually ask my dad (being a builder) all of these question but we sadly lost him last year, so I'm on my own with this and want to make sure I have a clear plan before starting.