"britain`s biggest wood working magazine"

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Sorry Pete wasn't meant to be miserable, probably had a bit too much Nick Drake. On with the Nick Lowe then.

Topless WW show. Aren't there health and safety issues here?

Sorry to be miserable again...

Martin
 
I personally would like to see woodworking mags go the same way as car tuning mags, lots of very top heavy models (read that how you will) **oww er misses**

come on, now who won`t buy one then?

I'm reminded of a fine magazine (?) now deceased, called DIY Power, that tried to marry the world of DIY/WW with that of lad's mags, with lots of pretty ladies on as many pages as possible. It died a death after just 7 or 8 issues if I recall, and was to be honest pretty terrible. RIP

Does that answer your question Steve?
 
Would anyone like to offer their thoughts on why mag sales (and it is all titles) are falling? Fewer woodworkers? More discerning woodworkers who might once have bought 2,3,4 or even more mags each month now only buying one? Not offering what woodworkers want? Lower sales but infinitely increased quality of woodworker spending loads more on tools.

We have our own thoughts, but I'd be interested in other ideas!

Peter Johns (TW in case you're not keeping up)
 
I'd Blame it on the internet :shock:
All these woodworking forums give us so much to
read that we don't have time for more than one
Mag each month. :lol:

All the Best

John
 
Hi Peter
I am surprised that WW mag sales are falling. With all the shows on Sky you'd think it'd be the other way around.
I don't think circulation is brilliant. Whether this is a clever plot to get people to subscribe I don't know :wink:. But it can be hard to actually find your favorite mag.
Perhaps you could answer this - how come I can go to my local whsmiths in Tavistock (W. Devon) and choose from most ww mags (even though they can run out quickly), but at a large Whsmiths at Paddington station I can't find a single ww mag? Do Londoners not do Woodwork. Very strange.
Cheers
Gidon
 
Now I'm regretting opening my mouth!

Internet - maybe a bit, but wouldn't other magazine sectors be affected the same way?

Finding mags in shops. Well, vicious circle really, but the truth is that it starts with sales declining, so the shops stop stocking so they sell less, so....... WHS Travel outlets tend to give their space to bigger selling sections - again based on past performance. If the sales weren't in decline you wouldn't have any problems finding them.

Peter Johns
 
Perhaps you could answer this - how come I can go to my local whsmiths in Tavistock (W. Devon) and choose from most ww mags (even though they can run out quickly), but at a large Whsmiths at Paddington station I can't find a single ww mag? Do Londoners not do Woodwork. Very strange.

A lot of this is to do with the way in which WH Smith work. They have different strata of outlets which take different mags based on things like circulation. GW for instance should be sold in all major WHS but will not be available in say stations or airports. As we're all (WW mags) pretty low circulation mags in the general scheme of things, we don't have much clout.

And it's possible that it could all get worse, as WHS are currently reviewing the ranges they sell, which could end up with WW mags being even less well stocked nationally. We all already have pretty well no chance of being available in supermarkets or DIY stores for the same reasons - we just don't sell enough to play with the big boys. Sad but true
 
Also welcome to the forum from me Peter.

As to you questions, in my opinion numbers will continue to fall, as the number of new potential customers is dwindling. This is a result I believe, in the decision of the powers that be, to reducing "Woodwork" and "Metalwork" and "Technical Drawing" classes into "Craft Design Technology", then into "lets drill a hole in some MDF, paint it, put a clock mechanism in it and call it "woodwork". I came through my GCSE and A-levels in '90-92 & '92-94 respectively, and during this time, much of the workshop space was reallocated to other subjects, and machines, benchs etc also removed. Nonetheless, I ended up with three teachers, a "woodworker, a metalworker and an electronics bod". Now I had an interest above all other pupils (bar one or two), who, in the main, were being given a piece of plastic to make a "key-fob", painting clock faces etc. Through perserverance, and after school "club", I managed to get access to the lathe, to be taught to cut M&T joints on a bandsaw, to see a P/T in action (not allowed to use those!) to see chisels being sharpened, etc etc - but in a school of 1500, I reckon only 5-10 of us had that level of interest. By "luck" I had a metalwork teacher from the dark ages, whom we still called "sir" and didn't believe in new rules and regulations and "syllabus" - I disliked him at first, but came to have a deep respect for him. He taught me to gas-weld, to braze, to use metal working lathes, to cut threads, to use mililng machines, manually and under-semi-automatic control, to file something correctly etc the list goes on - but how many kids these days get that chance? Thomas Kennedy (one of our younger members) says they don't even have a router at school?
Without access to initial teaching at school, how easy is it to take up Woodworking in later life? Difficult enough I'd say, by the time you have a job, mortgage, kids etc finding time to go through the basics is hard enough, especially when you don't produce anything visible for your "effort". I "learnt to cut a M&T" doesn't go down with SWMBO's as well as "Look, here's a beutiful new dining room table", so it's hard to justify workshop time. Coupled with this, is people having no idea how well/badly the difference between a good/mediocre/rubbish tool is, means they may give up through frustration. The one thing most schools did used have was a wide range of good, old hand tools, that performed "OK". Everyone here already has a passion, or interest in Woodworking, - I'm trying to think on behalf of "noobies"!
I'd love to indulge myself with a weeks tutorial from someone like Bruce Luckhurst, - but it's hard to justify teh time, and cost to the missus - she'd rather have a holiday together, and frankly, with limited annual leave, probably so would I (difficult choice that!).
Edit! So my point is, with no young people you have an aging reader profile, and until such point as you can re-engage a younger market into buying your magazines surely numbers will continue to fall?
That being the case, perhaps magazines should look to alternative routes to advertise to new customers, how about "sponsering" woodworking evening classes, or sending excess copies of back issues to the people who teach them, or offering "beginner" classes (for a half day in big towns/cities) along the lines of the "discovery workshops" that Homewood have been running?

<phew, rant over!>

Adam
 
Topless WW shows-count me in (unless there are beards attached!! :lol: )

Gidon,
What WW shows are they then? Workshop Wednesday has disappeared, I haven't seen Norm for months :cry: What is going on with flipping Discovery?
For what it's worth, I like Norm-bring him back Discovery!!!

cheers,
Philly :twisted:
 
Cheers Pete, Peter - always wondered about that. Does get people subscribing though I reckon ...

Philly - dunno. Discovery is just awful at the moment. It's really the only reason I pay for Sky (that and the fact terrestrial recetption is bad). I'll be giving it up soon I think if it doesn't improve. I thought the woodworking shows must be popular with the various ones they introduced. But now as you say only Norm once a day - and all repeats. Have people got bored of woodworking shows? I heard Adrian Edmondson loved NYW!! Perhaps we could get him to campaign for more WW shows. More Norm, Great British Woodwshop and Cutting Edge Woodworker. Latter two I know aren't perfect - but it still beats watching Big Brother!

Cheers

Gidon
 
Hi Adam
That was an interesting read, and I agree with more or less everything you said. It does all come down to what you learn at school. And as you rightly say there seems to be far less interest from the educational establishments as I'm sure Tom will attest too. Yes in my time at school (the first half of the sixties) we had a very large woodwork shop and also the same size for metalwork. Encouragement to go after school for further instruction and help with a project. This all seems to be a thing of the past and I guess we need to face up to the fact, that it is all a dying pastime.
With maybe people like us on this forum fighting a rearguard action to keep what we love alive as long as possible.

So Pete and Peter do you see what you have started.
I hope you are both ashamed of yourselves. :wink:

All The Best

John
 
I have noticed that Traditional Woodworking have been making an effort to target students and the last issue had the first part of a feature about how to get children involved. It had a couple of exercises to teach children and promises to carry on next month. Maybe the question is whether they actually want to learn a craft like woodworking when they could be sat in front of a computer. Tricky one.
Also, the Students' Gallery thing in TW died a death as they couldn't get enough colleges interested. In effect, it was free advertising for the college and the students. Not sure why they wouldn't want to be included but, rightly or wrongly, maybe they don't see magazine exposure as being very important. In essence, I just dunno! :?
 
Adam's comments are no doubt true. We do however notice a lot of new readers coming in that are now taking early retirement from a life at a desk and looking for something practical to do, even though they may never have done WW before. And these people are at an age where they would have had decent WW at school if they were so minded. The problem I think is that these are not coming in to the hobby as fast as the older readers are (literally) dying off at the other end. But for the time being we should be OK. It's 10 years down the line that I fear for.

Mags certainly try to make up for the lack in interest shown by schools and apprenticeships today, and I feel should continue to offer the best 'tuition' they can. Perhaps (grudgingly he admitted :lol: ) the net will continue in this vein, in which case it would be good to see Internet based WW mags. It's bound to happen, and I hope that GW for one will be at the front - though don't hold your breath :(
 
I also agree with most of what adam said, looks like I took my GCSEs and A levels a few years after but shared pretty much the same experience.
i.e. the decline of proper practical work and more emphasis on paper-work and computer programming (how is that ever DT?)

I was lucky enough to be able to FORCE the system to allow me to take wood/metal working AND electronics/IT.

I do feel for the students these days, and am probably going to go down my own route of teaching my kids the practical skills.

I also ehco everything adam said about trying to fit in a hobby such as wood working. The time envolved, the money.


Lets face it, more and more people want a plasma screen and a pc with broadband rather than a table saw and a set of chisels :shock:

I can only see the situation getting worse, as our schools start to churn out kids with no practical skill or common sense.

lets face it, at the end of the day, its the parents responsibiliy to make sure that the kids get a suitable level of education, I think this will start to come more into play.........


my 2ps worth



steve
 
Saw chops":12ttspg7 said:
It had a couple of exercises to teach children and promises to carry on next month. Maybe the question is whether they actually want to learn a craft like woodworking when they could be sat in front of a computer. Tricky one.

But you only have to see a childs face as they help "Dad" or "grandad" with a project for your reward. I don't have kids (yet) but I've seen the enthusiasm and satisfaction they get from "helping". Birdboxes, pull along trains, painting and "hammering". If you can get them earlier enough, they'll be destined to be master craftsman!

The comment about teaching your kids "Practical" skills rings true, I'm surprised people aren't queing up to learn after seeing the likes of "house doctor, DIY SOS, Changing rooms etc".

Adam
 
Pete Martin":31ajvg81 said:
Perhaps (grudgingly he admitted :lol: ) the net will continue in this vein, in which case it would be good to see Internet based WW mags. It's bound to happen, and I hope that GW for one will be at the front - though don't hold your breath :(

Pete,

I don't want dissolution you but Wood from the states tried this with Wood Extra. I subscribed, they only produced 2 or 3 issues before it folded due to lack of interest. :( Bit of a bummer, but they are sending me the paper mag instead which is quite nice. :)
 
Cor, this threads got going a bit hasn't it? :shock:

Pete Martin":1hjxic7f said:
mags there have the sort of budget that only Ian Dalziel or Alf can consider spending on woodwork :lol:
:p I hardly think I'm in Ian's league - wish I was. :(

peterjohns":1hjxic7f said:
Now I'm regretting opening my mouth!
Welcome to the forum, Peter. :wink: Good to see you here.

Philly":1hjxic7f said:
Topless WW shows-count me in (unless there are beards attached!! :lol: )
Well not beards, but the odd six-pack wouldn't be entirely unwelcome to this lady woodworker... (And I know you're doing your best, Andy :wink: )

Saw chops":1hjxic7f said:
I have noticed that Traditional Woodworking have been making an effort to target students and the last issue had the first part of a feature about how to get children involved.
Welcome to the forum, Sawchops. Didn't know that; sounds good. Bearing in mind what children can be like, I'd have thought the key thing was to make sure you don't obviously force them to be interested. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

Who never had the chance to do any woodwork at school, but still managed to get the bug. It's chronic too... :roll:
 
When i was a lad :oops: we had a very good craft teacher that made sweeping up afterwards seem interesting and fun and got a lot of people involved in woodwork & metalwork . I used to go in at lunch breaks and make a cuppa for the teacher (Mr Smith) in exchange for using the machines to make and sell coursework to all the other kids . Most of my projects were handed in for the exams 8) . Now with the advent of computer games most kids are not interested in getting dirty hands or splinters, its not cool i spose . Teaches have all but give up as kids get more out of control and they cant disaplin them and the minority that are interested soon end up following the rest of the kids . Sorry to paint a bleak picture of the youth today but i see a lot of kids and most of em are little bast@?*$ . If only we had american gun laws :twisted:
 
My baptism in woodworking came at 8 years old, helping my great uncle make repairs to a rather dilapidated shed on the property we'd just moved to. Rather than use a bench, he'd plane rough sawn boards on the sloped top of a coal bunker using nothing more than clamps and an ancient Stanley #4. He'd simply run his hands over the board to find the high and low spots... awsome to watch. Years later I got a brief taste for working with proper shop tools through school; the first time you use a bench mortiser is a life changing experience I tell ya... secondary school was an anti-climax. Technical subjects were taught, but the curriculum made sure they clashed with science subjects; I felt lucky to manage selecting tech drawing.
Years on, trying to correct the lack of formal training through evening classes etc is nigh on impossible here; seems there's not enough demand for them. Apparently the local tech college is lucky to fill places for apprentice joiners; cabinetry simply isn't covered.
Personally I'd love to afford the time and course fees that some of the national courses need, but there's no way I can take 9 months out, much less find £20k+ to spend on them.
After blundering through my first couple of projects, the penny dropped that I need some proper help in whatever format I can find it in. 2 months in a row I bought every wood related mag available at the local WH Smiths'. To say I was less than impressed was an understatement; I hate to touch on what has been a sore point on this list, but Billzee was right, without comparative testing, the tool reviews I read were meaningless.
With the notable exception of Norm, TV's been next to useless; do they really expect to instill enthusiasm by pumping out their constant MDF, "chew bee chew", gallon of PVA and a jigsaw projects...??

For me, I've found education through some fantastic books, excellent guidance through forums such as this, but both these avenues took some finding; how do you know what answers you're looking for when you don't know the questions...??

Listening to the radio the other week, I found it ironic to hear that in a country that's practically abandoned trade apprenticeships, we suddenly find that we're so short of qualified tradesmen that we're having to recruit them from places like East Europe.

There was a time when the UK was renowned for having some of the best craftsmen and engineers on the planet... now look at us. Somebody needs one helluva wake up call... but I don't think it's "us".
 
Hi Mike

If you want to be inspired by a woodworking magazine, just go out and buy GWW issue 151 on the 6th July.

If you don't agree with me after you have read it, then I will gladly send you the money. :wink:

See my other thread on the excellent comparative testing.

IIRC it is the very best issue I have read.

Cheers
Neil

PS I have no connection with GWW, apart from being a subscriber with a good postal service.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top