Breadboard Ends.

[jedmc571]

Hello,

I'm fitting breadboard ends on a table top on 40mm oak its about 950 x 850 the BB is for the 850 side.

My questions are.

1. I watched Cutting Edge WW the other day ( glazed sideboard ) on his BB end he used a loose tongue and polyurethane glue right accross the whole width on 50mm oak :shock: I thought this was a no no as it won't account for movement?

2. Does anything determine the width of the breadboard end, or is it aesthetic ?

3. What's the quickest / easiest way of doing it

Cheers

Jed

 

[Mattty]

Hello,

I'm fitting breadboard ends on a table top on 40mm oak its about 950 x 850 the BB is for the 850 side.

My questions are.

1. I watched Cutting Edge WW the other day ( glazed sideboard ) on his BB end he used a loose tongue and polyurethane glue right accross the whole width on 50mm oak :shock: I thought this was a no no as it won't account for movement?

2. Does anything determine the width of the breadboard end, or is it aesthetic ?

3. What's the quickest / easiest way of doing it

Cheers

Jed

A thread on the design forum had this link-
http://www.ibiblio.org/twa/plans/plans/ ... apdesk.pdf

Page 4 shows the correct way to do bread board ends. I would usually do the central peg as the tight one and have the movement from both sides.

The end should NOT be glued. Size wise- whatever floats you boat.
HTH.

 

[newt]

At the moment Norm is on line making a writing desk. The writing surface has breadboard ends, and to my surprise he glued these on. The desk is maple and the writing surface is I guess 1000 by 500mm. There was an article recently that suggested that you could glue up with a very weak PVA thus allowing some creep. However Norm used normal glue, This looks to be the wrong procedure to me, particularly is there is varying humidity.

As to the size of breadboard ends I dont know if there is a formula, but it is usually what looks right, is right. Norms were about 60mm, but that is a guess.

 

[Steve Maskery]

The whole point of a BB end is that it keeps the top flat whilst allowing it to move. Gluing it is plain wrong.

If yo have, say, 7 pegs along the BB end, the centre one should be in a round hole whilst the rest are in elongated holes of increasing length out to the sides of the top. In this way the expansion and contraction is symmetrical about the centre. Of course, if you want one side to stay flush, make this the round hole and make the others elongated all the way over to the other side.

The holes to not need to be elongated very much. My coffee table is about 18" wide and moves just a couple of millimetres from flush over that width.

Gluing could easily end up causing more problems than it solves.

Cheers
Steve

 

[9fingers]

Over and above the howls of anguish about Norms potentially unsafe practises, he did commit a number gluing sins in what he later refers to as 'cross grain situations'

In later series he does apply BB edges more correctly but I think they are only showing the very early ones at the moment - series 1 out of 22 x 13 shows. there is a long way to go - over 5 years!

He has been learning as he goes!

Bob

 

[Max Power]

Only glue at the point you do not wish to move , ie center or one end

 

[yetloh]

For me breadboard ends look horrible when the wood shrinks or expands so they are no longer the right length. A properly buttoned down top should not warp anyway.

Jim

 

[jedmc571]

So how many dowels for an 850mm to? 3 or 4 or even more?

Interestingly enough, I recently saw an article by John LLoyd in BW,
who glued the whole breadboard end on a table with a loose tongue, and said a D1 type glue should have enough "Creep" to prevent the glue line splitting.

Now why is it I'm confused :roll:

So how many dowels, I've commited now

Cheers

Jed

 

[Mattty]

Hi Jed-
This is a pic borrowed from Mr Grims website- (nice job MR G)

The spacing of his dowels looks about right to me.

If all your boards are equal width though, it may be worth considering trying to centralise your dowel in the board?

I would have thought 250mm maximum centres for the dowels and personally i would also go for an odd number.

I saw the magazine article you refered to and as far as i'm concerned he is talking out of his buttocks. That joint is guaranteed to fail.
HTH
Edit- i said even instead of odd.

 

[motownmartin]

So how many dowels for an 850mm to? 3 or 4 or even more?

Interestingly enough, I recently saw an article by John LLoyd in BW,
who glued the whole breadboard end on a table with a loose tongue, and said a D1 type glue should have enough "Creep" to prevent the glue line splitting.

Now why is it I'm confused :roll:

So how many dowels, I've commited now

Cheers

Jed

I have an Oak dining table (extending) which has 6 breadboard ends in all and there is no sign of dowels and no sign of creep, and at the other end of the scale I have a cheap, imported from India, TV unit which has crept about 2mm to 3mm and again no sign of dowels.

This tells me that if the piece was built with timber with the moisture content being suitable to where the piece is going to live.

If you know what I mean, I have never been that good at describing things.