DaWoodster
Established Member
I knew I should have bought a tablesaw...
This took far longer than expected, should get it finished tomorrow.
Box #1
- Thread starter DaWoodster
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
I knew I should have bought a tablesaw...
This took far longer than expected, should get it finished tomorrow.
MattRoberts
Established Member
You hand cut the splines?!
DaWoodster
Established Member
MattRoberts":2gewt1ma said:
5mm straight bit in router table with a simple sled.
MattRoberts
Established Member
Ah, I was going to say! Looking forward to seeing the end result 
thetyreman
Established Member
looks great so far, is that walnut? keep the pics coming
devonwoody
Established Member
Even with a table saw you would then need a jig to get consistant mitres. Yours look good for a hand cut.
When I glue up the pieces to make a box I found the easiest way without any mechanical adjustments needed was as per picture below.
Lay two lengths of masking tape sticky side up and drop the four pieces in correct order on top of tape and just fold up, it forms naturally without any adjustment needed. (glue I use is Titebond )
When I glue up the pieces to make a box I found the easiest way without any mechanical adjustments needed was as per picture below.
Lay two lengths of masking tape sticky side up and drop the four pieces in correct order on top of tape and just fold up, it forms naturally without any adjustment needed. (glue I use is Titebond )
Attachments
Eric The Viking
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 6,599
- Reaction score
- 74
That's nice, and the splines will look very nice, but I agree with DW, too.
Your photo shows a Stanley strap clamp thingy. I can't remember what they're properly called, but I've got one, and an even cheaper one from Toolstation or somewhere, and they're rubbish*.
Devon Woody's system is simple and very effective. I use it for small picture frames, and boxes and even an octagonal roof for a bird table. You can easily check for squareness, too. If you need clamping force, "F" clamps are simple and can be gentle or very forceful. Check for squareness across the diagonals - assuming the pieces cut in accurately matching pairs, you should get exactly the same diagonal distance. No square needed!
E.
*With the strap clamp thingy, I found there was so much friction when you tighten that it was very hard to keep the work square. And the strap kept slipping because I couldn't clamp the strap tightly enough (there are plastic cams but they're too stiff and don't work well). And then, finally, one of the really weak plastic restraints, that the strap goes behind on the handle, snapped off in the middle of a glue up and needed immediate repair (without those bits, it can't exert any significant force at all).
It just goes to show how downmarket Stanley really are nowadays - they could design and make these things so they are effective, but they evidently choose not to. For example, glass-reinforced plastic would be very strong indeed, but it's slightly more expensive to mould, or you could just make the crucial bits thicker, and mould the cams better.
But even then the thing would do a poor job of distributing the force evenly between four corners. Honestly, masking tape does it better!
Your photo shows a Stanley strap clamp thingy. I can't remember what they're properly called, but I've got one, and an even cheaper one from Toolstation or somewhere, and they're rubbish*.
Devon Woody's system is simple and very effective. I use it for small picture frames, and boxes and even an octagonal roof for a bird table. You can easily check for squareness, too. If you need clamping force, "F" clamps are simple and can be gentle or very forceful. Check for squareness across the diagonals - assuming the pieces cut in accurately matching pairs, you should get exactly the same diagonal distance. No square needed!
E.
*With the strap clamp thingy, I found there was so much friction when you tighten that it was very hard to keep the work square. And the strap kept slipping because I couldn't clamp the strap tightly enough (there are plastic cams but they're too stiff and don't work well). And then, finally, one of the really weak plastic restraints, that the strap goes behind on the handle, snapped off in the middle of a glue up and needed immediate repair (without those bits, it can't exert any significant force at all).
It just goes to show how downmarket Stanley really are nowadays - they could design and make these things so they are effective, but they evidently choose not to. For example, glass-reinforced plastic would be very strong indeed, but it's slightly more expensive to mould, or you could just make the crucial bits thicker, and mould the cams better.
But even then the thing would do a poor job of distributing the force evenly between four corners. Honestly, masking tape does it better!
DaWoodster
Established Member
The top two photos were the dry test fit, for the glue up I used a lot of masking tape, but didn't feel it had enough clamping force so I used the Stanley in the middle and it nipped it all up perfectly.
I do need to buy a pile of F clamps, never really needed them before.
I do need to buy a pile of F clamps, never really needed them before.
DaWoodster
Established Member
thetyreman":1bj4puxb said:
American Black Walnut.
custard
Established Member
I think the OP did use the tape trick, you can see the tape in his first photo.
If you're using PVA for small mitred boxes like these you'll get a much stronger mitre joint if you size the joint first with a very thin coat of diluted PVA. I've assembled this joint with and without glue sizing and the difference in strength is pretty remarkable. I'm not a big fan of pu glues but I have to concede that it's more effective than PVA on mitre joints like these, basically straight pu almost equalled sized PVA on a small box mitre joint in my tests, (although neither were as strong as a UF glue like Cascamite on a small mitre joint).
If you're using PVA for small mitred boxes like these you'll get a much stronger mitre joint if you size the joint first with a very thin coat of diluted PVA. I've assembled this joint with and without glue sizing and the difference in strength is pretty remarkable. I'm not a big fan of pu glues but I have to concede that it's more effective than PVA on mitre joints like these, basically straight pu almost equalled sized PVA on a small box mitre joint in my tests, (although neither were as strong as a UF glue like Cascamite on a small mitre joint).
DaWoodster
Established Member
Other than the very pleasing look of the splines, they were mainly added for additional mechanical strength as I was worried about just using glue on such thin mitres.
I got some Titebond II and III at Axminster last weekend, used the slow one for the main glue up and the faster one for the splines.
I got some Titebond II and III at Axminster last weekend, used the slow one for the main glue up and the faster one for the splines.
custard
Established Member
DaWoodster":2z2rr9p2 said:
Personally I always assemble small boxes just using well stretched masking tape. Using one band cramp right in the middle risks distorting the box.
Can masking tape apply sufficient pressure? Well, I know some extremely talented furniture makers who always joint their 8mm drawer bottoms using just masking tape, personally I cramp my 8mm drawer bottoms, but they don't seem to have any problems winning multiple Guild Marks with their method so they're doing something right!
Custard - how do you manage to get the right amount of PU? I always end up with a load of it somewhere I'd really rather not have it, or else not have it where I need it.
custard
Established Member
phil.p":1ojonidg said:
Like I said, "I'm not a big fan of pu glues"!
Even PVA clean up is a pipper down in the corners of a box. The main reason I'll make small boxes is if I'm making a fitted drawer in a desk or a dressing table, nothing looks nicer than a properly made English drawer that's fully fitted with little trays and boxes for stationery or jewellery. In that case I'll plan ahead and pre finish components with a coat or two of heavily cut shellac or shellac sanding sealer, that makes glue clean up much simpler.
devonwoody
Established Member
custard":29ka9gkv said:
I know of others who use masking tape for that job as well.
DaWoodster
Established Member
custard":3rxuvox1 said:
Good to know, I'm making at least 10 of these, will save time if I don't have to wait for the band clamp!
DaWoodster
Established Member
Wife is happy with final prototype, 1st 5 ready for assembly.
DaWoodster
Established Member
Been on holiday in France so progress has been slow, 1st 5 Sanded ready for finishing, Shellac should arrive tomorrow.
I really should have cut each box from a single board, so the grain wrapped, but was lazy and cut 10x of each size.
I hadn't accounted for the variance in thickness, 8mm..10mm on a mitre is really quite noticeable!
Next 5 will be much better...
I really should have cut each box from a single board, so the grain wrapped, but was lazy and cut 10x of each size.
I hadn't accounted for the variance in thickness, 8mm..10mm on a mitre is really quite noticeable!
Next 5 will be much better...
DaWoodster
Established Member
1st 5 completed.
Mixed 75g of dew axed blonde shellac in 250ml Meths, 3hrs @ 55c on the stove with a shake every 20 mins did the trick
Thinned that mix 50/50 before application, so roughly a one and a half pound cut, I think.
1 coat inside and bottom, 3 coats on the outside.
Wire wool'ed the finish to remove the gloss.
Learnt a lot during this process, hope the next 5 are much better!
Mixed 75g of dew axed blonde shellac in 250ml Meths, 3hrs @ 55c on the stove with a shake every 20 mins did the trick
Thinned that mix 50/50 before application, so roughly a one and a half pound cut, I think.
1 coat inside and bottom, 3 coats on the outside.
Wire wool'ed the finish to remove the gloss.
Learnt a lot during this process, hope the next 5 are much better!
custard
Established Member
Congratulations! They look really good. The shellac has added that bit of warmth to the ABW, personally I like the cool tones of ABW but ABW fades really fast in direct sun and becomes oppressively cool, with shellac it will keep looking better and better as time goes on.
=D>
I didn't quite understand the "55c on the stove" bit, stoves and meths don't mix well.
Good luck for the next batch!
=D>
I didn't quite understand the "55c on the stove" bit, stoves and meths don't mix well.
Good luck for the next batch!
