Bowl Savers
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Jenx
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Tom .. get Richard Findley to show you his setup at the weekend.
Spotted it in BSM's thread about the new lathe !
( maybe he can show you it in action! ) 8)
Spotted it in BSM's thread about the new lathe !
( maybe he can show you it in action! ) 8)
A
Anonymous
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Tom,
that's a big cost for a beginner. The only reason I'd want a bowl saver is if I was selling the stuff I was making (and selling lots of it). I come across free/cheap wood more often than I turn. Even if I had the money I'd put it into lessons rather than a bowl saver.
What else is on your shopping list?
Dave
btw I'm not having a go at you for wanting the bowl saver. I buy plenty of tools which swmbo says I don't need. Just the way these blasted messages come across sometimes.
that's a big cost for a beginner. The only reason I'd want a bowl saver is if I was selling the stuff I was making (and selling lots of it). I come across free/cheap wood more often than I turn. Even if I had the money I'd put it into lessons rather than a bowl saver.
What else is on your shopping list?
Dave
btw I'm not having a go at you for wanting the bowl saver. I buy plenty of tools which swmbo says I don't need. Just the way these blasted messages come across sometimes.
wizer
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I take your point completely Dave. The bowl saver will be bought by the owner of the wood so that he can have sets of bowls from the tree. If it was my money I'd be waiting for a bit before I bought one. But I would have eventually because it makes economic sense to me. It's something that appears to earn it's keep quite quickly.
big soft moose
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wizer":c5e808tv said:
only if you are paying for most of your wood - if its largely free then the cost saving is minimal (time saving is quite pronounced tho).
I have a kel mcnaughton system (the standard and mini sets) and i havent noticed any appreciable cost (because most of my thick wood is free) but its worth it to make the nesting posssible.
Is the guy with the wood buying the centre saver for himself or for you ? if its the latter whee did you find this guy and are there anymore like him at home ?
wizer
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Yes, he'll be buying it for me to make him at least 4 sets of bowls. He likes the idea of 'sets' of similar grain patterns.
I am offering him certain 'services' to even the deal so it's not a massive free for all.
I take your point about it not being as profitable if your wood is free anyway. But even so, you would get more saleable items from a single piece of wood and thus decrease workflow and increase cashflow
I am offering him certain 'services'
to even the deal so it's not a massive free for all.I take your point about it not being as profitable if your wood is free anyway. But even so, you would get more saleable items from a single piece of wood and thus decrease workflow and increase cashflow
John. B
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wizer":15zgav1n said:I am offering him certain 'services'
Tsk ,Tsk, and you a newly married man
John. B :lol: :lol:
big soft moose
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John. B":2i32aojb said:wizer":2i32aojb said:I am offering him certain 'services'
Tsk ,Tsk, and you a newly married man
John. B :lol: :lol:
yes - its amazing what lengths some people will go to to get woodworking tools
Paul.J
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robo hippy
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There are 3 bowl coring systems out there. The Oneway, the Woodcut, and the McNaughton. Of the 3, I prefer the McNaughton.
Do you need one? Well as a professional, I do. I save wood and time. The major time saving is on the cores where the bottom or the bowl is already shaped and all you need to do is flatten the bottom and make a finish cut. There isn't a lot of time savings on removing the waste wood. It doesn't take too many sets of cored bowls to pay for the tool. Being a professional is a reason to get the tool, but some times, need has nothing to do with getting a tool.
Horse power and torque are some thing to consider as well. A 1 hp motor is a bit minimal, but it can be done. All of the cutters are 3/8 inch wide, and are scrapers, so if you can take a scraper and remove a shaving that wide, you can core on your lathe. The exception here are the McNaughton mini and micro coring systems which have cutters at 1/4 inch wide on the mini and slightly less on the micro. The micro was desighed specifically for the mini lathes.
Oneway: This is the most costly of the systems, it was around $900 US for the whole set up. It is on a fixed center (pivoting point). It has its own mounting plate, and has 4 blades and a support finger that advances under the blade as you core. The biggest advantage of this system is that it is the most stable for the larger bowls. The down sides to me are the support finger and sharpening. While it provides support, you have to shut off the lathe to advance the finger. On a large bowl, this can be 4 or 5 times. The cutters are also a pain to sharpen. You have to remove them from the blade and hold them up to a grinding wheel. There is a jig available for this. You do a surface grind, not a face grind. A diamond hone/stone will touch it up some if you use the coarsest stone, but you need a grinder. The cutter has a tip which breaks the fiber, and then the sides of it cut away the waste. You don't get shavings. There is some play in the mounting plate to vary the angle you come in from, but not much, and if you are at the outside limits of the plate, the support finger can bind in the cut.
Woodcut: This is a nice little system. The emphasis is on little. The big blade is a 5 inch radius, so you can remove about a 12 inch diameter max core. There are 2 blades, with stellite cutters. You sharpen the face of them, and this is simple. This system mounts in your banjo, and you attach the tailstock to the back of the system. It is also on a fixed center/pivoting point. For me, it isn't big enough, and I never have the tailstock on when turning bowls. There can be some chatter when coring larger bowls and harder woods, but a nice little system.
Finally, the McNaughton. I prefer this system as it is the fastest, and offers the most versatility. You can core plates, bowls and deeper vessels. They have large, standard, mini and micro systems available. I use the standard set about 99% of the time. You don't need the whole set up. I have everything, in part because I demonstrate, and also because I am a tool junkie. The down side to it is that there is a learning curve. It isn't on a pivoting center so you have to guide it. It also tends to drift away from the intended path you are cutting on. You need to learn how to compensate for this. Also, since there isn't a pivot point, you can go through the bottom making lamp shades or funnels. There is a laser pointer available, which I love as it lets me know exactly where I am when coring. Sharpening is simple. The point is diamond shaped and you sharpen the face, not the top. A rough diamond hone does a good job, and I do take mine to the grinder a lot. This is not a tool that you can just pick up and use. You need to have some one mentor you, or there are 2 videos showing its use, one by Mike Mahoney, and the other by me. I believe both are available at the Tool Post over there. I don't really know if they carry all 3 coring systems or not.
robo hippy
Do you need one? Well as a professional, I do. I save wood and time. The major time saving is on the cores where the bottom or the bowl is already shaped and all you need to do is flatten the bottom and make a finish cut. There isn't a lot of time savings on removing the waste wood. It doesn't take too many sets of cored bowls to pay for the tool. Being a professional is a reason to get the tool, but some times, need has nothing to do with getting a tool.
Horse power and torque are some thing to consider as well. A 1 hp motor is a bit minimal, but it can be done. All of the cutters are 3/8 inch wide, and are scrapers, so if you can take a scraper and remove a shaving that wide, you can core on your lathe. The exception here are the McNaughton mini and micro coring systems which have cutters at 1/4 inch wide on the mini and slightly less on the micro. The micro was desighed specifically for the mini lathes.
Oneway: This is the most costly of the systems, it was around $900 US for the whole set up. It is on a fixed center (pivoting point). It has its own mounting plate, and has 4 blades and a support finger that advances under the blade as you core. The biggest advantage of this system is that it is the most stable for the larger bowls. The down sides to me are the support finger and sharpening. While it provides support, you have to shut off the lathe to advance the finger. On a large bowl, this can be 4 or 5 times. The cutters are also a pain to sharpen. You have to remove them from the blade and hold them up to a grinding wheel. There is a jig available for this. You do a surface grind, not a face grind. A diamond hone/stone will touch it up some if you use the coarsest stone, but you need a grinder. The cutter has a tip which breaks the fiber, and then the sides of it cut away the waste. You don't get shavings. There is some play in the mounting plate to vary the angle you come in from, but not much, and if you are at the outside limits of the plate, the support finger can bind in the cut.
Woodcut: This is a nice little system. The emphasis is on little. The big blade is a 5 inch radius, so you can remove about a 12 inch diameter max core. There are 2 blades, with stellite cutters. You sharpen the face of them, and this is simple. This system mounts in your banjo, and you attach the tailstock to the back of the system. It is also on a fixed center/pivoting point. For me, it isn't big enough, and I never have the tailstock on when turning bowls. There can be some chatter when coring larger bowls and harder woods, but a nice little system.
Finally, the McNaughton. I prefer this system as it is the fastest, and offers the most versatility. You can core plates, bowls and deeper vessels. They have large, standard, mini and micro systems available. I use the standard set about 99% of the time. You don't need the whole set up. I have everything, in part because I demonstrate, and also because I am a tool junkie. The down side to it is that there is a learning curve. It isn't on a pivoting center so you have to guide it. It also tends to drift away from the intended path you are cutting on. You need to learn how to compensate for this. Also, since there isn't a pivot point, you can go through the bottom making lamp shades or funnels. There is a laser pointer available, which I love as it lets me know exactly where I am when coring. Sharpening is simple. The point is diamond shaped and you sharpen the face, not the top. A rough diamond hone does a good job, and I do take mine to the grinder a lot. This is not a tool that you can just pick up and use. You need to have some one mentor you, or there are 2 videos showing its use, one by Mike Mahoney, and the other by me. I believe both are available at the Tool Post over there. I don't really know if they carry all 3 coring systems or not.
robo hippy
duncanh
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I have the Kelton/McNaughton system and I like it for it's versatility. I don't use it often but when I have it's worked well. It's a still a little stressful worrying about going through the bottom with it (only done it once so far, but been close a couple of times) but I'm improving.
The Mike Hahoney DVD is well worth watching.
My Nova lathe is just about powerful enough for the saver.
The only other saver I've used if the Sorby slicer, which worked but is incredibly limited to cone shaped forms.
One problem you may have if you decide to go with the Kelton is getting hold of one. As far as I know Toolpost are the only UK distributor and when I tried them (last year) they were out of stock. Luckily I got one 2nd hand. 3 months ago I tried to buy the laser guide and again they were out of stock. I chased them up about it a couple of weeks and have still heard nothing.
Duncan
The Mike Hahoney DVD is well worth watching.
My Nova lathe is just about powerful enough for the saver.
The only other saver I've used if the Sorby slicer, which worked but is incredibly limited to cone shaped forms.
One problem you may have if you decide to go with the Kelton is getting hold of one. As far as I know Toolpost are the only UK distributor and when I tried them (last year) they were out of stock. Luckily I got one 2nd hand. 3 months ago I tried to buy the laser guide and again they were out of stock. I chased them up about it a couple of weeks and have still heard nothing.
Duncan
Richard Findley
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Hi Tom,
Our day is becoming more and more jam packed!!! :wink: but if we have time I'd be happy to show you my bowl saver in action.
Cheers,
Richard
Our day is becoming more and more jam packed!!!
:wink: but if we have time I'd be happy to show you my bowl saver in action. Cheers,
Richard
big soft moose
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I can confirm that toolpost do carry the 3 kelton systems ( large, standard and mini ) but not the oneway or the woodcut although they could probably get them in.
I wouldnt worry about power too much as i recgular use my kel standard and kel mini with the axminster M900 which is 0.5 HP - it struggles a bit (see my post on upgrading) but gets the job done - 1HP on your woodfast will handle it easily.
I wouldnt worry about power too much as i recgular use my kel standard and kel mini with the axminster M900 which is 0.5 HP - it struggles a bit (see my post on upgrading) but gets the job done - 1HP on your woodfast will handle it easily.
wizer
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big soft moose":vifucrwv said:
2HP 8) :lol:
Thanks everyone. I will see what sort of money the guy wants to pay. My only thoughts on the McN is that, as a beginner, it might take a bit longer to get results than, say, the woodcut.
duncanh
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duncanh":22doyoo7 said:
Just a quick update - I've just heard from Toolpost that they've posted the laser guide, so they probably had a delivery of savers as well
big soft moose
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wizer":32qkftyo said:
if you get the demonstration DVD its easy - i was making nests the same day as buying the tool.
btw i think duncanh was just unlucky with availability when i bought my standard last year i just strolled in - picked it off the shelf , paid and strolled out - no stock avalability problem .
wizer
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This has reared it's head again and I'm still not decided. It think I'm leaning towards the woodcut as its a bit more silly person proof.
Can anyone tell me the maximum size of the 'mother' bowl. They have an explanation on their site but it's not sinking in.
Essentially, what I want to know is how the owner of the wood needs to cut up the logs?
Can anyone tell me the maximum size of the 'mother' bowl. They have an explanation on their site but it's not sinking in.
Essentially, what I want to know is how the owner of the wood needs to cut up the logs?
jpt
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HI Tom
The largest blank is about 16" by 8"
If you are up this way you are welcome to pop in and give it a go.
john
The largest blank is about 16" by 8"
If you are up this way you are welcome to pop in and give it a go.
john
wizer
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Thanks for that John. I'm going back and forth with this. Just looked at the prices and the Kelton is actually cheaper than the woodcut. With the capability to go bigger or smaller it looks like a better deal all round. I'm just nervous about using it. When you're dealing with someone else's wood there's a bit more pressure to get it right first time :?
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