Block plane or smoothing plane: Endgrain tidying

[russ_1380]

Right its obvious answer time again!

I've been looking at hand planes; I'd ideally like a tool for these 2 specific jobs:

-End grain boards (using on a shooting board)
-Tidying up protruding through dovetail joints (flushing them)

From what I've read I have two main options; block plane or a small smoothing plane (e.g. No. 4 size or similar). I appreciate (in an ideal world), I would use separate tools for each of the two jobs mentioned above.

My question is; could I get away with just one plane for both jobs? If so, which type of plane would you choose?

Talking to someone the other day brought up a point which made me reconsider my options. Prior to this I was set on buying a block plane for both jobs. A colleague told me they find it hard to use a block plane on shooting boards, due to the small size of it.

I was leaning towards a low angle smoothing plane instead.....but are these likely to be too large/akward for tidying up dovetails?

Which tool would choose?

Also, I see low angle planes advertised but also bevel up planes. Are low angle planes bevel up or bevel down?

I suppose my other option would be to modify an iron for my Stanley No 4. Could I regrind/alter the bevel angle to make it perform better on endgrain?

Any opinions appreciated,

A very confused Russ

 

[Boz62]

All I can say is that I've just come in from the workshop tiding up the endgrain on the legs for my new workbench. In softwood. Freehand - too big for the shooting board. And the Veritas Apron Plane, a small low angle blockplane (bevel up), is magnificent for the the job. I tried with the No.4 and that was one job it failed on. Both planes have standard 25 degree hones. That little blockplane is coming out to play more and more as it is so handy as a "trim plane" for all those little, and not so little, jobs .

I blame Alf for my buying it (in cheaper days). Her review was so positive and I'm now fighting The Slope(TM) :evil:.

Boz

 

[frugal]

I have one of these and it does both jobs wonderfully. I tend to use it as my plane of choice for all sorts of little jobs.

I find that it is easier to use on a shooting board than my No4 or No5 as it fits smoothly into the hand, I have not found a way of holding the larger planes to get sufficient pressure and not end up with a sore hand.

 

[woodbloke]

If you're looking for a single plane that will do both cleaning up of dovetails and for use on a 'shooter, then in my view you need a LV LA jack, where the blade is BU configuration and set at 12deg on the bed. It's clearly not so handy for all those little jobs that a dedicated block plane is useful for, but it will perform most of the day to day planing jobs at the bench. I have one loitering amongst a few others under the bench and it's the first plane I reach for. If funding permitted, then I'd also go for a small block as suggested by Frugal - Rob

 

[Alf]

I'd use, and indeed do (iirc...), a low angle smoother* for both tasks. The jack is a bit big for the dovetail job for my choice, but then I am a weedy girlie and this should be taken into account.

Cheers, Alf

*Mine's a... Lie-Nielsen. Surprise! :wink:

 

[jhwbigley]

Hi Russ,

I just use my record ss no 4 for my dovetail cleaning up

you've seen the results

you should be buying an apron!

JHB

 

[yetloh]

I believe Alan Peters only used a no7 and a block plane. I know another first class professional cabinet maker and teacher who does the same. Personally, I have always thought the no4 one of the least useful of planes, but we all have our own methods of working.

Jim

 

[Smudger]

Doing this earlier in the week I used a Record T5SS on the shooting board, a LN 62 freehand and a LN 60½ for trimming.
I still chimped it.

I need to make a donkey's ear.

 

[Vann]

Also, I see low angle planes advertised but also bevel up planes. Are low angle planes bevel up or bevel down?

With very few exceptions, bevel up planes = low angle planes.

In Lee Valley speak, Bevel Up planes (BUS, BUJ) are low angle planes, with curved sides that aren't suitable for shooting. Their Low Angle planes (LAJ, LAS, etc.) are low angle planes, with square sides for shooting. Their Low Angle Jack is said to be a very good shooter, but probably a bit big for what you want. Maybe the LV or LN Low Angle Smoother?

Chhers, Vann

 

[Ironballs]

How about a Philly skew mitre for bigger end grain boards on a shooter?

Or use a non skew plane on a ramped board

 

[matthewwh]

Another option to consider is the much maligned No.3 smoother. Small enough and light enough to be used for a lot of typical block plane applications but more comfortable to use for extended periods.

If you do go down the block plane route, the Veritas LA block is a very well designed piece of kit. I sold mine to help out a customer who was in desperate need of one and the number of times my hand has intuitively reached for the empty shelf since has amazed me.

 

[Vann]

Another option to consider is the much maligned No.3 smoother. ......If you do go down the block plane route, the Veritas LA block is a very well designed piece of kit.

Maybe this would suit your needs well. It's low angle for end grain; flat sides for shooting; and almost No.3 size. You could even get the knob and handle kit, to make it more versatile. Unfortunately it gets really expensive if you buy all the accessories :shock: .

Cheers, Vann

 

[Paul Chapman]

Another option to consider is the much maligned No.3 smoother. Small enough and light enough to be used for a lot of typical block plane applications but more comfortable to use for extended periods.

I agree, Matthew. I often use my #3 for end grain when you need a bit more heft than you can get with a block plane. For example, where the wood is too thick to plane on the shooting board and has to be planed freehand, as in this piece of laminated oak

Great plane - one of my best buys.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

One to consider for endgrain on dovetails ..

... extra heft

... larger for increased registration but not too large to be cumbersome

... excellent on a smoothing board

... excels as a smoother


The LV LA Smoother!

... and a smaller alternative ...

The LV LA Block plane ... with a tote and knob for extra support.

Plus it is a super #3 sized plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[russ_1380]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I read up on the matter further last night in books and website reviews/forums. I've ordered the Veritas low angle smoother

This plane should be nice to use according to the reviews, plus it has the benefit of irons available with different bevels. From what I've read, I can use the low angle blade for this kind of work, then switch the blade for a more steeper angle for more general smoothing work.

I believe this will be the best of both worlds for me; an expensive tool but one I can justify.

I'll keep you posted on what its like!

Russ

 

[russ_1380]

PS John Henry: Apron is last on my list, I need to know what I'm doing before I can dress the part :wink: