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BIG planer problems

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kityuser

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ok, I spent the entire yesterday trying to get my thicknesser planer to plane a straight edge on some pine (which should`nt be a difficult task)

heres the pipper
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/gallery/det ... age_id=247


and heres the results its producing:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/gallery/det ... age_id=246

both boards were run over the planer, and just out of shot the boards ARE touching.
The reults are extreamly bad!, I have no idea where I`m going wrong, does anyone have any ideas???
has anyone else produced rubbish like this whilst learning and thus know where I`m going wrong???
 

Newbie_Neil

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Steve Maskery

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Hi Kityuser
Do you have the same problem with all boards or just this one?

Last year I had a disaster in my workshop. A cabinet fell off my wall and half a ton of huts, bolts, screws and other scrap metal landed on my Kity 636 planer. The nice people at the insurance company bought me a brand new one.
:) I thought.

:( It was.

It would not plane straight, it would not thickness evenly. There was nearly 1mm difference over a 5" board.

Because I had not actually bought this (the insurance co had), and the day after they bought it the retailer went bust, it took a while to sort out the paperwork for the guarantee, but once it was sorted, Kity UK were very good indeed. They sent a local engineer. He had worked on Chinooks in the RAF but had never seen a P/T before. He couldn't fix it. He took it away. 4 days later it came back perfect. He billed Kity for 16 hours work, he had stripped it down and rebuilt it from the chassis up. They must have lost a fortune on this machine, no wonder Kity have gone bust. It was a nice machine which was simply built shoddily.

My point is, if it is not just the spring of the board, it may be the machine. Check you tables are in the same plane as each other. If they are like a hump-backed bridge, it would cause the effect you are seeing.

I do this by holding a long steel rule on its edge on the outfeed table, then use feeler gauges on the infeed table. If the gap is different along the table, you have some fettling to do.
Cheers
Steve
 

DaveL

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Steve Maskery":37eb4ce6 said:
Check you tables are in the same plane as each other. If they are like a hump-backed bridge, it would cause the effect you are seeing.

I do this by holding a long steel rule on its edge on the outfeed table, then use feeler gauges on the infeed table. If the gap is different along the table, you have some fettling to do.
I have to agree with Steve on this. It looks like the tables are not alined properly. I had this on my Perform, I had knocked the adjustment while converting between modes.

I used a 3' steel rule to check the table alinement. Wind the infeed table up so the machine if used takes a zero cut. Make a couple of wooden blocks with saw cuts in to hold the rule up square to the tables and then you have both hand for testing and adjusting without the thing keep leaping on the floor :roll:
 

Chris Knight

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Usually this problem is the result of the blades being set too high wrt the outfeed table. Are you familiar with the process for checking this with a small piece of wood? I can supply detail if needed.
 

Aragorn

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I agree - the first place to start if you haven'y already is table alignment and blade alignment.
Make sure the tables are perfectly aligned - buy a decent quality engineer's straight edge if you haven't got one - useful bit of kit. The ideal height for blades is exactly level with the outfeed table.
User tips:
Make sure you are planing the board concave face down onto the blade and don't apply too much downward pressure or you will bow the wood as it is being cut. Just enough pressure to keep it moving steadily through the machine. Apply the light downward pressure on the outfeed table just behind the cutterblock, not the infeed.
User error aside - there's no way to get straight boards off a machine whose tables are bowed or misaligned.
 

kityuser

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thanks guys, shucks you are a smart bunch.

I`ll check the tables, but if it could be the blade set then I bet thats what it is!!!!

this was the first time I had "set" a set of blades.

I`ll put all the hair back in that I`ve pulled out and take another try.

I`m at the axminster shop in on monday, straight edge is top of my list......

I`ll keep you all posted, again thanx
 

Steve Maskery

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Aragorn - can I respectfully disagree with you?

The ideal height for the blades is not EXACTLY level with the outfeed table - if it is set like that the workpiece will hit the outfeed table. Why? Becasue the machine cuts a continuous series of scallops like nnnnnnnnnnnn. The blades are set to the top of the scallop, whereas it is the bottom of the scallops which ride on the table. The difference is only a few thou, I know, but it is a very real difference.
I can recommend two articles:
FWW #103, December 1993
F&C #26, March 1999

A straight piece of wood sitting on the outfeed table should be dragged 3or 4mm or so when the block is rotated by hand.

Cheers
Steve
 

johnjin

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Hi
Well I have just done a quick calculation. :shock: And to be honest I think we are splitting hairs here. :roll: I will go with Aragorn because the difference is so small that its not worth talking about. :lol: For example if the cutter block was 50m/m diameter and had two blades going at 8000 rpm we would have 16,000 cut a minute or 266 a second. If the feed rate was 8 meters a minute the wood would be moving at 133 m/m a second this would give scollops every 0.5 m/m. The height from trough to crest comes out at 0.0013 m/m. I can't really believe I've just done that. :? It just goes to show that I have nothing better to do at the moment. Now I will sit back and wait for someone in a similar position to correct my maths. 8)

All the best

John
 

Philly

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Hi All,
An extra thought on planer blade height compared to out feed table height- the blades are set higher than the outfeed table due to compressio n of the wood fibres as well.
Without getting scientific, if you have an adjustable outfeed table set the blades as per previous instructions then adjust the outfeed table to eliminate any snipe. If you don't have adjustable outfeed, then a bit of tweaking is needed of the blade height to achieve a clean result.
It really is a pain changing blades, which is why most people leave it well beyond when the blades are blunt. Using sharp blades really is worth the effort though!
regards,
Philly :D
 

johnjin

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Hi Steve
I think you got your scallops a bit back to front there. The cutter is set to the bottom of the scollop and the wood will ride on the tops of the scallops or crest. I've just looked up the spelling scallops by the way and both spellings are correct. But getting back to the point I guess plus or minus a thou or two ain't really worth worrying about.
Sorry Steve as I said in the previous post I'm just bored.

All the best

John
 

Adam

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johnjin":2zl7s81l said:
It just goes to show that I have nothing better to do at the moment. Now I will sit back and wait for someone in a similar position to correct my maths. 8)

All the best

John
Christ, you need to get out in the workshop me thinks...... anything will do as a project, even tidying up if it's that bad. Or sharpening, or if you truly have no inspiration for projects, you could try tuning a hand-plane. :roll:

Adam
 

johnjin

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Hi Adam
Yup I've got to agree with you.
The only problem is, its getting on for three thousand miles from here. But not to worry I'm getting lots of ideas for when I do get back to the workshop. In the meantime I will just carry on browsing this forum and dreaming.

All the best

John
 

Adam

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johnjin":ho7nqzce said:
Hi Adam
Yup I've got to agree with you.
The only problem is, its getting on for three thousand miles from here. But not to worry I'm getting lots of ideas for when I do get back to the workshop. In the meantime I will just carry on browsing this forum and dreaming.

All the best

John
Well, you need to get out to the local cabinet-makers for a smooch around, or have a look at some local furniture, or buy some "local tools" or design some projects? Hows that for a start - or trade some DIY for free drinks at the bar?

Adam
 

Aragorn

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Hmm that's all very interesting!
I always set my blades so that a straight edge is dragged 1-2mm. Any less than that and the outfeed table does seem fractionally higher than the wood - I guess due to the scalloping effect that you are talking about.
The advice I had years ago from NMA was to aim to get the blades just above level with the outfeed, by aiming for this drag of 3-4mm. In practice though, I've always found that to be too much and it gives snipe at the end of the board.
Steve - I agree with you about setting the blade, I was just trying to be simplistic for the sake of not obfuscating Kityuser's dilemma!
Johnjin - even if you are technically correct (and it looks like you can do the maths!) there's always a discrepancy between theory and practice when it comes to woodworking! :wink:
 

Steve Maskery

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Hi Johnjin - do you live alone? :lol:

Well that seems to have rattled a few Sunday afternoon armchair surfers quite nicely! :D

I really wasn't trying to be clever-clever. It's just that I set mine with a dial indicator, it measures to 0.01mm, and I find that if I set it level the workpiece fouls, and if I raise it 3 or 4 thou it cuts sweetly. The scallop explanation is what I assumed was the cause, but I'm certainly not going to argue with the maths.

If you find that dead-level works for you, go with it.

Cheers
Steve
(going back into the garden with a refill...)
 

johnelliott

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asleitch":agjer044 said:
Well, you need to get out to the local cabinet-makers for a smooch around,
In my day, smooching was very much reserved for the dance floor, and carried only between members of the opposite sexes!
John
 

kityuser

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cheers for all the comments lads (and gals).

the infeed table on the planer is`nt adjustable, but the outfeed table was SSSOOOOOO far out.

I purchased a staight edge from the axminster shop (what an aladins cave that place is, Mrs kityuser HATED it :shock: )

.. checked the tables and the cutter block and found the the outfeed table was 3 mm to high, and not level :?

Although "adjustable" the outfeed table was locked into position by a pin, after this was removed and 2 holes made bigger.... bobs your uncle.
(I posted a pic, just need charley to validate it).

I got SO excited that i rushed out when Mrs kityuser was having a nap and made my first raised panel door.!!!


cheers again all

steve
 

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