Big Caste Grinder, How to Restore?

[Rhyolith]

This is a large grinding machine I spotted somewhere I was working (conservation work) and I would like to rescue it from a rusty grave! As its not mine it would probably help my pitch to restore it if I had a plan in place of how to go about it.
Untitled by Rhyolith, on Flickr
Removing the rust is no issue, its more or less everything else; particularly the engineering aspects of getting it functional.

 

[mtr1]

Check the bearings would be my first thought.

 

[AndyT]

I think the bearings might be pretty simple!
I guess tallow would be a suitable lubricant - you can get it from plumber's merchants and Toolstation.
I believe the centre of the stone will have a square hole which you get centred and fixed using slender wooden wedges.

It looks like it needs a belt drive though a handle and an apprentice might be better.

A full wip thread is obligatory!

 

[RobinBHM]

It may need some minor fettling before you can achieve scarysharp

 

[bugbear]

If the stone has stood in water (in the trough) the stone will be u/s, I'm afraid.

BugBear

 

[Rhyolith]

The bearings are just wood blocks and are not original I don't think, they were one of the things I was wondering about.
Untitled by Rhyolith, on Flickr
There is a handle, or at least I think thats what it is... its really hard to see, it comes off that well at the back.
Untitled by Rhyolith, on Flickr
The stone is useless (looks like an eccentric cam!), so use is probably out of the question (now I think about the reality of sorting that). As such my main objective here is conservation as close to the state it "should" be in as possible. But I have never dealt with one of these before!

 

[ED65]

Given the scale of the thing for dealing with the rusty iron components this is one of those things that cries out for a soak in molasses and water.

If it were me I'd make myself new oil-soaked bearings for the shaft to ride in. You can supplement this with more grease, tallow, lard etc. but the soaked bearings would be a snap to make and would provide nearly permanent lubricated running.

 

[Rhyolith]

Given the scale of the thing for dealing with the rusty iron components this is one of those things that cries out for a soak in molasses and water.

If it were me I'd make myself new oil-soaked bearings for the shaft to ride in. You can supplement this with more grease, tallow, lard etc. but the soaked bearings would be a snap to make and would provide nearly permanent lubricated running.

What is molasses?... a type pf super according to google.

I assume you mean wooden ones? So you would soak to wood in oil, what sort of oil? What sort of wood, I assume something hard.

 

[AndyT]

Ok, I've had a bit of a look through a few old books to see what they have to say about care and use of the grindstone.

These are from a 1925 Melhuish catalogue and show some of the arrangements of stone, treadle and spindle. (Why not just order a new spindle? )
I can't see a handle in your picture - maybe it's the end of a crank for a missing wooden treadle which you could make.

These are from one of Paul Hasluck's books of advice to the amateur:

and these are from Bernard Jones, and cover a bit more detail on how the stone is mounted.

I hope this helps.

 

[bugbear]

I hope this helps.

I've got a crick in my neck!!

BugBear

 

[ED65]

What is molasses?... a type pf super according to google.

You're not familiar with molasses? It's a little like black treacle. This stuff.

I assume you mean wooden ones? So you would soak to wood in oil, what sort of oil? What sort of wood, I assume something hard.

Yes, oil-soaked wooden bearings.

Oak is fine if it's all you can get but hornbeam or teak would be a better long-term proposition. Use the hardest wood you can find.

To prepare the bearings for use you basically deep fry them! Put them into cold vegetable oil, weight them down with something and then bring the temperature up until the water in the wood is turned to steam (the oil will appear to boil). Keep that temperature until only the smallest bubbles rise from the wood, then turn the heat off and let it cool in the oil overnight. Don't over-fry, this can turn the wood to charcoal.

Except for any final shaping that's it, the wood is ready to use.

Apparently these can give long service even where there is no additional lubrication added, although that is assuming the bearings are largely protected from the elements.

 

[bugbear]

What is molasses?... a type pf super according to google.

You're not familiar with molasses? It's a little like black treacle. This stuff.

I assume you mean wooden ones? So you would soak to wood in oil, what sort of oil? What sort of wood, I assume something hard.

Yes, oil-soaked wooden bearings.

Oak is fine if it's all you can get but hornbeam or teak would be a better long-term proposition. Use the hardest wood you can find.

To prepare the bearings for use you basically deep fry them! Put them into cold vegetable oil, weight them down with something and then bring the temperature up until the water in the wood is turned to steam (the oil will appear to boil). Keep that temperature until only the smallest bubbles rise from the wood, then turn the heat off and let it cool in the oil overnight. Don't over-fry, this can turn the wood to charcoal.

Except for any final shaping that's it, the wood is ready to use.

Apparently these can give long service even where there is no additional lubrication added, although that is assuming the bearings are largely protected from the elements.

IIRC a lot of agricultural tillage equipment used oiled wooden bearings; if they can survive that, then can survive anything!

BugBear

 

[Rhyolith]

Thanks for that! Bearings don't seem the biggest issue (that would be convincing the owners to let me at it )

I don't quite understand the black treacke treatment... So covoering it in boiling sugar removes rust?

What would you finish it with? I was thinking maybe trying that bioled linseed treatment mentioned in that drill restoration post or paiting it with hammerite. Taking into account it may end up back where it is now.

 

[ED65]

I don't quite understand the black treacke treatment... So covoering it in boiling sugar removes rust?

You dissolve the molasses in water which makes a rust-removing solution, I don't know how it works. Actually I'd say few people know how it works as there are numerous competing theories on that score.

Anyway it's relatively slow but can be amazingly effective as you'll see if you Google molasses rust removal and look at a few links. Here's a sample before and after pic as a taster.

What would you finish it with?

Would this be exposed to the elements?

 

[Wildman]

Fruit wood is traditionally used for wheel hubs lubricated with goose grease. I suspect those bearings would be fine in something similar. Apple used for bearings in the local corn mill as well. Oak no good because of the tannins.

 

[Rhyolith]

Would this be exposed to the elements?

Yes! It currently feels the full brunt of the Welsh weather, and if it went back there afterwards it would again :shock:

Fruit wood is traditionally used for wheel hubs lubricated with goose grease. I suspect those bearings would be fine in something similar. Apple used for bearings in the local corn mill as well. Oak no good because of the tannins.

Thanks

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Is the intent to restore this to usable condition or is it just cosmetic?

Regards Mick

 

[bugbear]

Fruit wood is traditionally used for wheel hubs lubricated with goose grease. I suspect those bearings would be fine in something similar. Apple used for bearings in the local corn mill as well. Oak no good because of the tannins.

Ransomes (makers of some of the tillage equipment I mentioned) always used oak, for decades.

In their later years (due to people asking) they trailed "proper" metal/ball bearings, but they cost more, and wore out faster, than the established oil-soaked oak.

BugBear

 

[Billy Flitch]

Up until the use of white metal lignum Vitae was the wood used for prop shaft bearings in boats, ships and subs. it was also used in stuffing boxes on boats. You may have trouble just walking into a timber yard and asking for it but it was used in quite a few things Crown green bowling balls, Shipwrights caulking mallets and so I believe croquet mallets and no oil at all needed, it makes its own.

 

[blackrodd]

Here in Sunny Devon, These were hand cranked on farms and also flat belt driven in many old time workshops, like you'rs would be.
These were always rather basic and "Country" in design, wooden bearings, wobbly wheel in all directions.
The design has been around for many years, and used by many armies
Some say that King John could get the end of his sword glowing red hot and light his *** off it!
Regards Rodders

PS I forgot this.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hand+ ... 29y4-aQ%3D