Best saw for ripping 3mm boards for mandolin back/sides

[Carl P]

I've rashly promised my cousin that I'd make her a mandolin. I'm following the book by John Troughton and I'm busy at the moment making jigs & clamps etc, however I can see the light at the end of the tunnel for that somewhat tedious task and I want to be ready for when I'm actually making it. I have a large plank of tropical hardwood that used to adorn a mantelpiece, I don't know it is but it looks to be somewhere in between mahogany and rosewood in appearance and hardness. I don't have the means to cut by machine so any advice about the best type of saw using elbow power is most welcome.

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Glynne]

I would have thought someone from the Forum local to you could do this for you on a bandsaw?
Just remember to leave plenty of wood to allow for movement after you've cut it - even if the timber is dry as there can be internal stresses.

 

[MIGNAL]

I've just had a quick look on Amazon at the book. It's a Cittern shaped Mandolin, with a width of near 5 1/2 " each piece of the bookmatch, so 5 1/2" depth of cut. Not a huge amount to saw by hand but no doubt it's easier if you have the right saws. The best way is to put a shallow groove all the way around the timber to act as a guide.
5 minute job for someone with a half decent bandsaw. The body of the instrument isn't very long at all.
At the end of it all you may well ask yourself why you didn't just go out and buy a pre cut set from one of the suppliers. I can get Guitar sets of AB Walnut for £30, cut to near 4 mm. One Guitar set might do two instruments. Easy to thin from 4 mm using a hand plane.

 

[profchris]

I use a 26 inch no-name (but quite decent quality) rip saw purchased from a car boot sale for £1. Of course, I had to learn to sharpen it ...

Plane one face flat, then run a marking gauge round using the planed face as your reference. For final thickness you will want around 2mm, so mark at 4mm to allow for cleaning up.

Groove that marked line to about 3mm depth, I use a tenon saw.

Place your wood in the vice so you can cut at about a 45 degree angle, keeping the saw blade horizontal. If you put much pressure on the blade the cut will become more ragged internally (or at least, that's my experience). Every couple of inches of cut, flip the wood so that you're cutting from the other side.

When you get down to the vice, you have to improvise!

Once your first slice is off, plane flat the face of the timber and repeat for the second slice. Your book match is the faces of your first saw cut.

This is fairly slow work because you need to go gently. I'd cut your timber to a little over final dimensions before resawing, as a 6.5 inch width board is substantially more work than a 5.5 inch one.

I have done this with an ordinary hard point panel saw. It goes a bit slower, and the cut is even rougher, but it's quite achievable.

My saw cuts are always cleanest at the start, and then get more ragged towards the end of the cut as I lose patience and put more elbow into the sawing.

 

[MIGNAL]

I think I'd want to mark a bit more than 4 mm. It doesn't take much to go off and of course it could be a lot of sawing only to produce scrap wood.

 

[AndyT]

I showed some pictures of my experiences ripping by hand in my chest of drawers build, here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post946799.html#p946799 and following posts.

I found that a lot depends on positioning. If you want to cut strips off the edge of a board, I think it's easiest to use a low stool or pair of trestles and to stand over the wood and bear down. But for deep ripping, which is what I think you mean, I found the simplest answer was to hold one end in the vice and use an ordinary rip saw, like this:

or this

You do need a good stable bench and a way of holding the wood which makes it easy to raise the wood in the vice and to turn it round from time to time.

On the first piece, which was moulded as cladding, there was an easy rebate to follow. On the old drawer front I just marked a deep line with a marking gauge but did not groove it first with a smaller saw. If you feel your cut going crooked, just turn the work round.

The saw I used was a common nameless crosscut saw which I re-filed to have rip teeth. This was not hard to do, as the teeth are quite large.

 

[profchris]

I think I'd want to mark a bit more than 4 mm. It doesn't take much to go off and of course it could be a lot of sawing only to produce scrap wood.

With my car boot rip saw I can successfully mark at 3mm, cutting to the waste side of course. But I agree that a bigger margin is good for first attempts. It all depends on how good your technique has become, which requires practice, and on what wood you have. If I had a really nice 20mm board I'd want to get four slices from it (book matched back and top for a uke, for example).

AndyT's pictures are exactly how I go about resawing.

 

[No skills]

Sorry to but in, what would you use to get the inital marking cut to a 3-4mm depth? Just a knife or some sort of saw??

Cheers.

 

[MIGNAL]

I've seen some of them use a special saw, the name of which I forget, no doubt due to brain cells becoming too old.

 

[profchris]

Sorry to but in, what would you use to get the inital marking cut to a 3-4mm depth? Just a knife or some sort of saw??

Cheers.

I mark first with a marking gauge. Then I carefully use a tenon saw to produce my slot, on the waste side of the line. Tenon saw because it's more accurately controllable and the rigid back helps keep a straight line.

Ideally I'd make a kerfing plane (based on Tom Fidgen's design) with a moveable fence, but I only make half a dozen instruments a year and so am always too impatient to get on with the next one, rather than investing time in making tools. Here is my friend Sven using the proper tools to get three slices from a 15mm board: http://www.argapa.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/resawing-on-large-scale.html

 

[Carl P]

A big thank you to you all for replying, I really appreciate the trouble you've taken - only one more question, what ppi would you recomend?

Mignal, I agree about buying the boards - probably be better wood aswell. However I'm masochistic enough to want to do as much of the work as I can myself (I think I'll buy the machine heads though!)

Especially appreciate profchris & AndyT's thorough description of the process - my own technique has been improving lately but 4 boards out of 20mm is still an aspiration!

I've still got quite a few things to do before I need to do any sawing, so plenty of time get the saw just right,

Thanks once again,

Carl

 

[MIGNAL]

You don't have to buy machineheads! :roll: Just turn some wooden friction Pegs. Many old metal strung Citterns used friction pegs.
You can draw your own wire and rig up a winding mechanism using an eggbeater drill. Fretwire can be formed from Brass. You can make your own brass, just a bit of Tin and a bit of Copper. Alderley edge still has enough Copper and it's easy to get at.
Varnish can be made from collecting resin from leaking Pine trees. Get a bit of linseed from Flax, heat the two together.
Kill your own Cow for the bone.
Jobs a good 'un.

 

[Carl P]

You don't have to buy machineheads! :roll: .....
Kill your own Cow for the bone.
Jobs a good 'un.

That's the problem with people today, they expect everything done for them! Now, when I were a lad.....!

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[profchris]

Tpi? I think my saw is 6 tpi and that works OK.

But as I said, a hard point panel saw will do the job though it will wander more, so go carefully and maybe give yourself a bigger margin if your wood allows.

I wouldn't recommend wooden pegs for metal strings - I have tried them, and tuning is an interesting business! OK for gut, maybe even for silk and steel extra lights, but your cousin will curse you if you don't fit geared tuners.

But the cow sounds a good idea. Not only bone, but hoof and hide for glue, leather for the case you'll have to make as well, and I'm sure you could think of some way to use up the leftovers.

 

[Trafalgar]

There's nothing about this job a standard six point or so rip saw couldn't handle. Any apprehensions are alleviated by sawing somewhat well wide of the gauged line and planing back after an appropriate length of time has passed for the wood to settle after sawing.

I am not an instrument maker but I suspect that there is some percentage of rejected stock (after sawing) that has to be dealt with in the normal course of producing instruments as an endeavor.

 

[Carl P]

Thanks once again for the replies - it's very helpful for me to hear how other people would go about things, as I am somewhat alone in my shed (as far woodwork is concerned at least!).

So, profchris, I think I can safely deduce that really, before I start on this project, I need access to a large field and some cattle - as it happens my cousin used to be a farmer, so may be able to advise me - although she does work in Nepal now which could be give an interesting slant on things.

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Tetsuaiga]

I've been looking into this in the past. Have a bandsaw but i'd quite like to try one of the big frame saws.

The type that's a rectangular frame with the saw in the middle. I'm sure you can make one easily but if its just for one job I suppose you might as well just use a rip saw and leave some extra thickness for potential inaccuracy of cut.

 

[MIGNAL]

I kind of made one of those, except the blade was at one edge rather than in the middle. More like a large Bow saw. If you've seen the large ECE model you'll know what I mean. I expect that the type you refer to is better for ripping. Mine was a little unbalanced and awkward to use as a rip saw. Perfect for crosscutting though. I bought one of the Japanese blades from Fine Tools and what a mighty fine blade it is. Not cheap though. Not long after I stupidly had a log burner fitted and the saw became the main weapon of choice for X-cutting firewood, often old large house joists. The difference between this and a Bahco metal framed bow saw was night and day.