Best glue?

[Jensmith]

I've been using PVA glue for my 12th scale fireplaces but although strong, it's relatively slow to dry.

Is there a similar type glue which is slightly tackier so it would hold a bit quicker but not be something like superglue that is so quick that I wouldn't be able to adjust things or remove it should I make a mistake?

I've been using a glue syringe (pinpoint brand) to apply the glue so I can get it fine enough so it would need to be suitable for going in the syringe too. So I don't think a glue that needs a hardner wouldn't be suitable.

I'm just glueing wood in the main with a small amount of Corian which sticks with PVA or similar glues I am told.

I am in the final stages of getting my first design up for sale. Just need product photos and to make up a second of the actual bits for sale and then wait for a buyer!

Thanks

Jennifer,

 

[Steve Maskery]

Jen
What brand PVA are you using? There are several, very different, ones on the market.

Wudcare do one which bonds in 5 minutes. That's not fully cured, but you can take the clamps off then. That's plenty fast enough for me for most jobs.

No More Nails also do an Express. I can't remember what the open time is for that, but I remember it being good. I've got the remains of a bottle that came free with a mag, IIRC.

Then there is a range that you have to keep clamped for 2 hours. I guess that is what you are using? Try the Wudcare, it's very good.
S

 

[Jensmith]

Hi Steve,

I'm using Evo-stick Wood glue so it is reasonably quick drying. My main problem is it has a tendancy to slide about and squeeze out a lot and with such tiny pieces of wood in some cases this makes things a bit messy and getting glue over other faces isn't ideal when it comes to finishing.

I just wondered if there was a slightly tackier glue that doesn't slip about so much when you stick the pieces together?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well I'd say you were right to use a PVA. Perhaps just use less of it!

Glue-up is one of the most stressful parts of any project, because of the potential for cockup. It's not so bad in joinery where you have holes and rebates and grooves and the like, which locate, but if you are just surface-to-surface, then yes, creep is an issue. Perhaps you may need to devise holding and clamping strategies to help you.

Dolls Houses are not my forte, I'm afraid.

S

 

[Jensmith]

It's tricky isn't it. Use enough so it's strong enough, but not too much that it slips about!

I'm not using a huge amount but I'll try using even less.

Thanks,

 

[CHJ]

Jen, you say CA is too quick, is there any chance you can clamp/hold the small pieces in place and with a very fine nozzel just touch a joint to get capilliary action on a thin CA?
StarLock Adhesivesdo very fine nozzels.

Woodscare Brand PVAdo a waterproof 5 minute super fast PVA, 5 min initial bond and 10 min.strong enough to handle.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Woodscare Brand PVAdo a waterproof 5 minute super fast PVA, 5 min initial bond and 10 min.strong enough to handle.

That's the stuff. Good price, too, I've paid over a fiver before now. I think Axi have their data a bit to pot though:

Key features
Type - PVA
Suitable for Wood, Cloth and Leather
Interior/Exterior use
Setting time 5-48 hours
Initial Tack time 5-10 minutes
Setting time 4 hour firm bond, 24 hour full cure

!
S

 

[jimi43]

I watched a model programme once on TV. The guy was building jet aircraft and such marvels and used PVA mixed with CA.

Apparently it was his "secret weapon".

Might be worth a try...on a piece of scrap of course!

:wink:

Jim

 

[ondablade]

It depends a bit on the sort of joints you are making J, but dry assembly followed by adding glue to the joint using a needle tipped bottle of low viscosity CA (so that the glue can flow in by capillary action or 'wick in') is one of the fastest, neatest and best ways of assembling suitable small parts - the latter being materials CA sticks, with narrow joint lines.

This might work with something like the Chair Doctor low viscosity PVA too, but why lose the speed advantage of CA unless it's essential to do so.

I'd be a wary of the sound of needing 'jiggling around' time on anything that's remotely production oriented. Maybe some sort of fixturing/locating arrangement would speed things up a bit for you...

 

[Jensmith]

It's all butt joints or just a small piece stuck on as decoration onto a bigger piece. Nothing fancy.

The fireplaces for sale will be sold as a kit for the person to assemble themselves, unless they specifically want to pay extra for a 'completed' fireplace.

I am glueing up the design model for product photography. Unpainted and then painted.

I do have a jig using magnets on a grided board for keeping everything square etc so that holds things together and works well. But some bits need to be slipped into place hence I don't want them sticking halfway in.

The solution may well be a very fine nozzel to squeze in the PVA once in position.

I will give that a try and also the PVA / CA idea and see how it goes.

I'm not a massive fan of CA for this situation. I see the disadvantages being greater than the advantage of speed.

 

[ondablade]

The CA sounds unlikely if you have anything you need to 'slip' in after applying the adhesive J - you'd have to be very fast, plus the cure speed varies quite a bit with changes in humidity etc. But maybe you could locate the part first, and then apply the CA.

Another potential issue with CA is 'blooming'. The liquid vapourises quickly, and deposits on surfaces around the joint - the whitish bloom is especially obviously on gloss colours, plastics and transparent bits.

Doesn't sound like it's an issue for you (that you are bonding plastics, or will have CA come in contact with them), but the liquid adhesive can in some situations cause stress cracking in plastics like polypropylene or polyethylene too - it's a powerful solvent and unzips the structure if the plastic is stressed.

 

[Jensmith]

Ok, thanks Ian.

I think sticking to the PVA option is probably best / safest option. I'd be slightly worried with CA reacting with the Corian in that case as it's that sort of acrylic/resin type material.

I think I'll try using less glue for the bits that tend to slide - it's mainly the mantleshelf as it's made up of 3 pieces. I could maybe use a small bit of double sided sticky tape as an initial 'bond' with the PVA spread over the rest to stop the bits sliding.

It's really just to keep things neat and avoid getting glue on exposed surfaces and avoiding too much squeeze out when clamped.

 

[ondablade]

This may not be relevant J, but if so just stay conscious that you may need to 'productionise' whatever you are doing on a small volume basis - that it make it capable of production in decent volumes.

That ideally means matching part design and assembly methods. i.e most design and think about adhesives and other assembly methods as an afterthought.

Corian should be OK with CA so far as stress cracking is concerned (it's a high molecular weight plastic) - but would need checking with e.g. Loctite tech support. Being a bit of a slippery plastic it may not bond with CA without first being treated with a primer.

PVA probably doesn't bond very well to it, although that'd need to be properly confirmed (either way) with your maker.

A quick search just now suggests that you can bond Corian with CA, silicones with as the other commonly used adhesive. This came up on the US forum the search threw up, but I didn't check it: 'If you would like a copy of "How to Work with Corian in the Home Workshop" (duPont C951 H59444), you can call duPont at 1-800-4-CORIAN.'

 

[bugbear]

Is there a similar type glue which is slightly tackier so it would hold a bit quicker but not be something like superglue that is so quick that I wouldn't be able to adjust things or remove it should I make a mistake?

IIRC Cyanoacrylate glues come in a wide range of viscosities and setting times, and there's also something called kicker which makes the slow ones set faster.

Model makers, of the aircraft and ship persuasion use them.

http://www.rcworld.co.uk/acatalog/Cyano.html

BugBear

 

[Nick W]

If you're just worried about gluebrication and are not going to use edge tools on the joint afterwards then drop a few grains of sand into the glue before offering the pieces up. That should work for the wood-wood joints, though I'm not sure if it would on Corian, but it's probably worth a try.

 

[Dodge]

If you want to stay with the viscosity of PVA but with a faster grab and quicker drying time why not try Aliphatic Resin.

I use this all the time and find it to be far superior to PVA

It is sold under various names but the best IMHO is Titebond Original.

Dodge

 

[Digit]

Jensmith, I am rather surprised that nobody has mention my 'secret weapon,' the good old fashioned hot water glue.
Apply, hold for ten seconds, job done.
If you need a stronger bond do part of the joint with your PVA and part with the HW glue.

Roy.

 

[Jonzjob]

Jen, what I do when I'm glueing tiny bits together using PVA is to put some on a scrap of wood in a blob and use a very small screwdriver to put the glue where I want it. It works everytime and you don't need a syringe.

 

[Jensmith]

Jensmith, I am rather surprised that nobody has mention my 'secret weapon,' the good old fashioned hot water glue.
Apply, hold for ten seconds, job done.
If you need a stronger bond do part of the joint with your PVA and part with the HW glue.

Roy.

What is hot water glue? Google didn't come up with anything and I've never heard of it.

Jennifer

 

[Jensmith]

Jen, what I do when I'm glueing tiny bits together using PVA is to put some on a scrap of wood in a blob and use a very small screwdriver to put the glue where I want it. It works everytime and you don't need a syringe.

Thanks John. Yes, I have tried that with a wooden stick and a BBQ skewer but I often find the transfer of glue isn't very good so I tend to put blobs on and then spread them out. That's why I tried the syringe as you can get a consistent quantity that is a little more controlsble and the 3 nozels allow for quite fine amounts of glue.