Bandsaw BAS316 Castings Distorting

[aesmith]

Hi,

I haven't used my Elektra Beckum BAS316 bandsaw for a while, and when I came to try and use it today I found that the upper guide castings have distorted, apparently of their own accord, to the extent that the saw is unusable. Has anyone else found this sort of thing happening? The guides were always a bit squint and in fact I have photos from a few years back so can see the difference ...

Previously ..

Today ..

And the offending part ...

Any ideas? I'm really losing the will to persist with that bandsaw, it's never been a good machine even after Electra Beckum swapped the original for a brand new one. Trouble is that in the current state I can't really sell it, and not sure what I would buy as a replacement. To make matters worse that upper guide is apparently no longer available.

Tony S

 

[RogerP]

There's this ...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/bandsaw-blad ... em-upgrade

 

[porker]

Seems strange it would have moved so much. Stresses can be built up in castings but I didn't think they would shift that long after manufacture. Is there enough metal on there to put in a milling machine and machine the other face back to 90 degrees? It didn't look that straight to begin with. If you don't know anyone with a mill it should be pretty simple for a small machine shop.

 

[wizard]

I would fabricate a new one out of steel looks like a simple job

 

[aesmith]

Thanks all. I can't understand it either. Looking at my email archive it looks like I got the BAS316 in 2001 or 2002. The emails are all between me and Electra Beckum concerning problems with the original BAS315, it doesn't positively date when they swapped it for the BAS316 but it can't have been long after. The first picture above is from 2009, so even though the castings are over 10 years old it seems they're still moving.

I can't say how much I regret not taking them up on the offer of a refund back then, but at the time there was nothing obvious available unless I went up quite a lot in price.

Regarding a possible solution (other than junking the wretched thing) I found this as well, purpose made for the saw. That might be the solution, but I've emailed Electra Beckum to see if they have anything to add (will also call a local dealer on Monday to see if he can get parts). The actual distorted bit should only be a couple of quid, I'm not sure I want to sink a load of cash into something that might not work out.
http://www.bedfordsaw.co.uk/complete-bl ... 15-316-317

Making my own replacement might be possible, but I don't really like metalwork so not something I'd enjoy.

 

[paulm]

Can't really see well enough but can you shim it straight ?

Cheers, Paul

 

[woodpig]

First off, I wouldn't get rid of it just because of the guides. They broke on the one they had at work so they made a new one and it worked fine.

You can still get some spares, is the part here:

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/Metabo-BANDSAW-BA ... 61262.aspx

The name changed from EB to Metabo but it seems like the same machine?

 

[aesmith]

First off, I wouldn't get rid of it just because of the guides.

Yes I know it sounds silly, but it's always been a struggle to get it to do anything but rough work, although it was pretty useful for that after I'd spent countless hours fiddling.

You can still get some spares, is the part here:

I saw that, thanks. The upper guide assembly is shown but marked as "unavailable".

 

[aesmith]

Can't really see well enough but can you shim it straight ?

I'm going to try and bodge something, because I need to use the saw. It won't be a long term or even medium term solution because it'll be yet another bit that needs to be faffed around with every time I set the guides.

 

[paulm]

Depending on where/how the surfaces mate you might be able to drill and tap for one or more grub screws to adjust in or out instead of shims, or epoxy or superglue a shim, so that it holds the bracket straight even when you need to move the bracket forwards or backwards for different blades ?

Good luck !

Cheers. Paul

 

[woodpig]

Before taking anyone's word for that spare not being available see if you can get a close look at the Metabo version of your BS.

The distorted part looks to be little more than a piece of Angle. I'd have a go at making one if it's really no longer available.

 

[aesmith]

Maybe not easy to see in the picture but the part is not a pure L shape, the top part has quite an overhang. It also needs to slide fore and aft, but the bottom part just has threaded holes for the main assembly to fix, so that's where I'm going to try and shim.

 

[Hemsby]

Hi,

As the castings are die cast it is unlikely that they will bend without cracking so more probable that the bracket is not square due to a manufactured “error”

The problem may be higher up

Not sure if this is the cause on your machine but I had similar guides on the p----.

I found the problem was where the assembly is bolted to the machine with the 2 self tapping screws it was not until close inspection I found the casting lugs were cracked and is caused the whole assembly to “tilt”

If you have not already seen it this was my fix.

broken-bandsaw-t78266.html

The machine has worked perfectly since

 

[aesmith]

Thanks for all the comments. The culprit (or let's say the main culprit) is definitely the part shown in my third picture. Here it is mounted on the saw, viewed from behind and with one of the set screws removed to let me get my measuring tools in the right place. You'll see the top part is pretty much vertical and parallel with the extruded guide post.

Having said that and after reading your thread I looked at the top component and found a few issues that won't have been helping. The heads of the two self tapping screws are slightly oversize so dig into "my" casting, stopping it sitting quite right in the grooves and also meaning it lines up differently as it's adjusted back and forward. Screw heads were easy enough to file down, but now that the castings actually bear on each other instead of being push sideways by the screw, I find the rails and grooves don't quite line up.

I started filing "my" casting to see if I can get it square, but I think I'll shelve that at start from the top, get the first bearing surfaces fitting consistently.

Any tips on filing square and flat? I don't really do metal work, and was trying to think of a short cut to get the bottom of that L bracket at 90 deg to the upright. Disc sander might do it, but I don't have one of those.

Thanks again, Tony S

 

[Hemsby]

Getting the bottom of the “L” bracket square with the upright will not guarantee that the guide roller will be correct #-o the “upright face is in fresh air it’s the groove face that needs to be square to the bottom..

Your options are a bit limited. if your are not comfortable filing etc. To avoid any sort of engineering alteration the only simple solution I can see would be to fit the bracket back on the machine and pack the bottom face of the bracket with shim until the roller guide assembly is correct :idea:

Sorry I cant think of another solution that does not involve filing/machining and drilling & tapping.

Good luck

Keith

 

[woodpig]

It's so far out I'd be a bit worried about weakening the part. Have you thought about building it up square with something like JB Weld?
http://www.jb-weld.co.uk/j-b-weld-epoxy-putty-sticks

Make up a wooden angle and cover it with wax so the putty doesn't stick. Rough up the bottom of the part and then push it into some putty in the bottom of the angle. Trim up the excess while it's still soft. I've seen some amazing repairs made with Epoxy putty.

 

[Alexam]

Hi Tony, not good to see your problem and it would be good if the guides were in line with the blade, as intended. However, presuming the thruster guide is ok, the side guides have always been 'just guides'. They are not intended to be touching the blade, but just offset sufficiently that should the blade wobble a bit, it will 'check' the movement. The guides shown in the photo suggest that the bottom of the left guide and top of the right guide could still work, as intended, just not in line and wider than normal to allow for the twisted guides

The key to this is getting the blade to run true with no top or bottom guides or thrust bearings anyway near the blade, as well as the blade's teeth being in the centre of the top wheel. If the blade then runs true under power and stays in place, then you can move the thrust bearings to almost touching and the side guides likewise.

Obviously the top guides will be set wider to allow for the top right and bottom left of the guide to be just off the blade.

I know it looks wrong, but it shoud still work if set up correctly

Hope this helps if I have seen the problem correctly.

Alex

 

[aesmith]

Thanks, I'm going to try either a couple of tapered shims, or possibly building up with epoxy. Also getting some more info from Bedford Saw & Tools, as the guide have always been the weak point on this machine. Currently I don't use the lower side guides as they're so difficult to adjust (instructions say remove table to adjust lower guides, but also says remove blade before removing table!).

Will add photos if I get anything working.

 

[woodpig]

Will add photos if I get anything working.

We all like a happy ending.

 

[aesmith]

I was going to stick a tapered shim, MDF or similar, between the parts, but thought I'd give the metal bashing another try. The problem I was having with filing was keeping it flat, the filed surface was coming out convex. What I ended up doing was filing a shallow groove, then clamping the flat file in the vice and moving the work. The groove helped keep it flat. There's still a long way to go, but it's getting close so I want to work on the other mating surfaces before taking more metal off here.

The offending part (see how rough both surfaces were) ..

Still squint but now actually usable ..

By the way, Electra Beckum/Metabo are completely useless. First they steered me to a parts reseller (J Carr & Sons) as Metabo won't deal with my direct. J Carr said parts not available + something about no parts support for Chinese made machines (isn't mine German?). Back to Metabo who gave me part number and diagram. Back to J Carr again, same result - Metabo are mistaken, the part is not available. I was pretty much going to get the Bedford Saw services upgrade kit, but is it worth sinking £60 into something that's obsolete with declining support?

Tony S