Bad Purchasing Experience -Bosch GTS10 Table Saw

[Prizen]

Hi guys,

Just thought I would let you know of my experience with a tool shop Northern Ireland.

While on a once off visit to Northern Ireland recently ( I am from Southern Ireland), I decided to pop into a supplier near Belfast and ended up buying a Bosch GTS 10 table saw.

When assembling it two days later in my workshop, I found that the fence was not standing 90 degrees with reference to the table.
I was not happy with this, after spending almost £800 on this saw+stand, so I contacted the supplier with a photo of the issue.

They said that I could return the saw, but only if I drove back up (which is 100 miles each way) and returned it in store.
As I would be out of pocket with driving this distance, and due to the fact that I was sold a faulty saw, I asked them if they would collect it.
They responded saying that they do not provide an uplift service. I explained my situation, and they offered no help. In order to try and make it easier for them to help me out I did the following -
I am intending on buying a dust extractor, so I asked them if I ordered one online (paying full shipping charges etc), could they arrange to pick up the faulty TS at the time of delivering the extractor. Again, I was told No, that they didnt provide an uplift service.

I do realise, retrospectively, that if I had actually sat outside the shop that day and ordered the TS online, that I would not be in situation I am in now as they are obliged to pick-up in situations such as this when items are ordered online the supplier too acknowledged this fact...

I asked for my query to be put to the management, and I was told that they weren't willing to do anything to help me.

In all I feel quite hard done by, and although I believe that they are not breaking the law, I consider this very very poor customer service.

Anyway, this is just my experience, thanks for reading...

 

[Steve Maskery]

Prizen
It always leaves a bad taste in the mouth when something like this happens.
I read your other thread about this saw and I'm surprised, because I was under the impression that it enjoyed a good reputation. At one time I was thinking of getting one as a secondary machine/site saw.

I still find it very difficult to understand why it is not adjustable. Can you post some pictures. I believe you have got my DVDs, so you know where to look for adjustment screws etc. Can you photograph those areas and post them up, perhaps we can get this sorted with your machine.

S

 

[Philjohn60]

Hi Prizen

Sorry to hear about your bad luck and surprised at the very unhelpful attitude of the seller.

Here's what I'd do. Get a quote from a reliable courier (I use City Link here on the mainland) and be sure to include insurance. Then phone (and back it up with email) to inform them you will be returning the saw as defective/not fit for purpose and insist on a full refund. Then buy a stand online for £50 plus the saw itself for £550!!!!! Say £50 for the courier and you'll still be £150 better off. They lose the sale that they didn't deserve to have in the first place and hopefully their reputation gathers a little more tarnish!

There's more information available online from citizens advice, just type 'Do shops have to give refunds for returned goods?' into your browser and don't forget the seller is bound by UK law. Good luck with it - they don't deserve your custom!

 

[Prizen]

Steve, Phil,

There doesn't seem to be an adjustment for it. See photo. Also, below thread indicates that this problem isn't isolated to myself..

http://www.bosch-pt.co.uk/professional/ ... blems.html

I suppose if I shim underneath with some tape as was already suggested, then it would righten, but then it may not sit correctly on the table.

Ideally I would return it, but I dont see why I should settle for this!

Thanks guys,
Finnian

P.S. Steve, I'm enjoying the DVDs!

 

[Steve Maskery]

P.S. Steve, I'm enjoying the DVDs!

I'm delighted to hear it, thank you.

I'm afraid I can't tell from the photo just what I am looking at! If that is part of a saddle then you could drill and tap for a couple of M6 nylon bolts which could be adjusted to tilt the fence. You shouldn't have to do that, of course, but it may be a cheap and easy way of getting a good saw from a poor situation.

S

Edit - is that a picture of a try square showing how out it is, but rotated 90 deg? If so, that is not what we need to see. We need to look at the saddle area, the locking lever and the area around it.

 

[Nippychippy]

Al right prizen were in Dublin you from

 

[Philjohn60]

I'm afraid I don't know much about the saw, but I do know about the law and when I'm being ripped (scuse the rhyme and pun) off. You really must return it. If I spent £200 on something, I wouldn't accept having to bodge it to make it work properly, let alone £800!!!! From what I've seen this is a much read forum and reputations can be made or broken. The best form of advertising is word of mouth, axminster for their customer care are a prime example, and it may pay to remind them of this. Don't let them get away with it. You'll end up with something you're happy with for less pounds. One last thought is to make sure you've got as far up the ladder as you can with regard to who you're talking to in the company, before you go for the jugular. Always ask for their name too.

I might be too cantankerous for this board, but if there's gonna be a fight I'm always on the side of the little feller!

 

[Prizen]

Al right prizen were in Dublin you from

Im in Clonsilla Nippychippy

 

[Prizen]

I'm afraid I don't know much about the saw, but I do know about the law and when I'm being ripped (scuse the rhyme and pun) off. You really must return it. If I spent £200 on something, I wouldn't accept having to bodge it to make it work properly, let alone £800!!!! From what I've seen this is a much read forum and reputations can be made or broken. The best form of advertising is word of mouth, axminster for their customer care are a prime example, and it may pay to remind them of this. Don't let them get away with it. You'll end up with something you're happy with for less pounds. One last thought is to make sure you've got as far up the ladder as you can with regard to who you're talking to in the company, before you go for the jugular. Always ask for their name too.

I might be too cantankerous for this board, but if there's gonna be a fight I'm always on the side of the little feller!

Appreciate the support Phil. I might email them the link to this thread to see if they will act!

 

[Nippychippy]

Ballyfermot now in dundee

 

[Nippychippy]

Hopefully you get your saw sorted out I hate bad service

 

[Prizen]

Hopefully you get your saw sorted out I hate bad service

Thanks Nippy

 

[AES]

Hullo Prizen, sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Bosch saw/ toolshop.

Personally I think that Philjohn 60 is dead right and NOT too cantankerous for this site! The fact is that you bought something that is not fit for purpose and although you're not located in the UK, the seller is. Therefore the seller is subject to the UK laws on fit for purpose and distance selling.

I had a similar experience with Amazon UK and although I'm not resident in the UK, Amazon UK is.

To cut a long story short I bought a new reprint of a novel which was published over 50 years ago (one of the few good reasons for dealing with Amazon IMHO). When it arrived some of the pages had been poorly printed to the point that some were almost unreadable. I went to their on-line Returns page, filled out the form and listed the badly printed pages by number. Their computer sent me an automatic reply saying that although I could have a refund they would not replace the defective copy because it wasn't Amazon's fault. So I sent their Customer Services an E-mail "stroppopgram" saying that I didn't want a refund, I wanted a readable book to complete my collection of books by that same author. I went on to tell them that under the Sale of Goods Act they had sold me a book with some unreadable pages and therefore it was not fit for intended purpose, so I INSISTED on getting a replacement copy, not a refund. I thought I might have to battle them on the phone a bit but to my surprise I got a prompt response saying that a replacement copy was on the way to me and that although they normally asked for return of defective stuff because I am in Switzerland the cost of sending the original back to them would be too high.

In short, their automatic system saying I could only have a refund and not a replacement was a try-on which no doubt some customers would have accepted. But not me¨(and BTW, we're taking about a paperback book costing 8 quid here, not 800 quids-worth of saw)!

I would strongly advise you NOT to try and fix this fault yourself but send it back to them, telling them (by E-mail) that despite their very poor (and illegal) responses to date you INSIST on a complete refund (or if you wish, a satisfactory repair/replacement). Tell them they MUST also cover your costs of sending the saw back to them by courier.

You should also copy that E-mail to Bosch Customer Support in UK, AND to Bosch in Germany (I can supply you with a German E-mail address if you have any difficulty finding it).

Some further questions: A) when you bought the saw from these people, did they know you were going to export it to S. Ireland? B) If so, what, if anything, did they say about the Warranty from Bosch? C) Did you pay UK VAT? D) Is there any difference between UK VAT and S. Irish VAT amounts? E) On arriving home in S. Ireland did you pay S. Irish VAT and/or import duty? F) Is it even POSSIBLE that in transporting the saw home you damaged it the car yourself (e.g. was it still packed in its box when you loaded it in the car?). If still in box make that clear in your E-mails to Ray Graham and Bosch as well.

The above may sound like a bit of a hassle (and it probably will be, sorry). But OTOH you've given up 800 of your hard-earned and I think Philjohn 60 is dead right, you owe it to yourself to make sure the supplier starts to act like a responsible and legal seller, whether they like it or not!

Living in Switzerland I'm unlikely to come up against these idiots but hopefully your original post may help others to steer clear of what I can only describe as a thoroughly disreputable dealer.

Good luck, AES

 

[Prizen]

AES, thanks for your support.

I am not sure that the VAT should make a difference, however, I did pay UK vat, and I am a DIY user.

The supplier did know that I was bringing it to the South. I had quite a long, friendly chat with a few members of staff, so they got to know where I was going with the saw during the course of that conversation.

Absolutely no way that the saw was damaged in transport. It was in it's protective foam packaging.

Getting a bit impatient now, a week on, and still no table saw (stopped using it once I found the issue).

Thanks,
Prizen
Prizen

 

[AES]

@Pizen:

OK, all understood, thanks.

The reason for asking if you paid UK VAT is that asw you did pay it then it is in all respects a "legal" export/import that you have done and so the deal by them is most definitely subject to UK law in all respects.

Glad to hear that you're sure you couldn't have damaged it in transit accidently (which is the next "squawk" I'd expect to hear from a bunch of cowboys like these people obviously are). As before, do please make sure that you highlight that point in your E-mails to them, copy Bosch.

Also point out in your E-mail that their salespeople knew you were exporting the saw some distance away - too far to reasonably expect you to pay the cost of return if it proved faulty. Therefore they should have at least offered to check it over for you/with you before you left them with it on board your car.

I understand your impatience with getting a solution but IMHO it's unlikely to be a speedy resolution (which is satisfactory to you anyway). But OTOH you say you're "only" a "DIY-er" (like me) so though, as I say, I can well understand your impatience to get going with it, there's no "must" about getting it into service as if you were a tradesman earning your living with it. And as also said, this is your 800 quid we're talking about!!!

IMHO you owe it to yourself to make the supplier pay - everything - and I suspect that will take you a little time (I guess weeks not days, but then again, at least not months - probably!).

Again good luck, and again do let me know if you want an E-mail contact in Bosch Germany.

AES

 

[Prizen]

Sincerely appreciated AES. Yes, please do PM the Bosch Germany contact. Thank you so much

 

[RogerS]

AES...it wasn't bought over the internet and so distance selling regulations don't come into it.

I am afraid that in contract law (where you go into a shop and buy something) there is no onus on the goods supplier to pay for any faulty item to be returned to them. It is at your cost. If you bought a dodgy meat pie from your local supermarket, would you expect them to arrange a collection?

That's what the law says. On the other hand, their customer service does seem a bit 'challenged'.

 

[AES]

@Roger S:

I'm not sure I agree. My understanding is that if he made the retailer aware that he was intending to export the goods (in this case a large/heavy item, AND some distance away) the retailer should at least have offered to check the item before leaving the premises. We're told that didn't happen. I may be unclear in this area but we both agree that the "customer service" is pathetic, so especially if involving the manufacturer as I suggested, I think it's well worth his while "insisting" on the getting return shipping cost repaid. I believe I'm right in saying that Bosch's retailers are usually dealers officially appointed by Bosch.

@Prizen:

PM sent.

AES

 

[RogerS]

@Roger S:

My understanding is that if he made the retailer aware that he was intending to export the goods (in this case a large/heavy item, AND some distance away) the retailer should at least have offered to check the item before leaving the premises. ....
AES

offered maybe but under UK law (as far as I am aware) distance of the buyer to the seller is irrelevant in face-to-face purchases. Or exporting for that matter (unless it's a prohibited good, for example)

 

[AES]

OK Roger, I can't say I'm 100% sure, but I did think that as the buyer told the retailer that his intention was to export a big article some distance away that fact forms part of the "contract of sale" and therefore the retailer MUST either check the item before leaving or accept it back (at his cost) if the item was not checked then subsequently found defective (and I believe that distance selling regs DO apply - because he informed the retailer that he was exporting).

But as I say, I may well be wrong on that point within the actual wording of the law. BUT, as we both agree that the retailer has very poor after sales service and that the (reputable) manufacturer has a reputation to maintain, I still think it's worth the buyer's while to try for ALL costs to be re-imbursed.

If it was my 800 quid that's certainly what I'd be pushing for, VERY hard!

Krgds
AES