Axminster SK114 variant question

[sploo]

I'm trying to get my head around the numerous T38 variants of the SK114 Evolution chuck, but unfortunately I'm not really understanding the replies from Axy's customer support, and can't find third party info.

I have the T38 version of the SK100 chuck (for my Axminster AT1628VS lathe), which has grub screws that grip the spindle as an added security measure. I understood that was effectively a reverse locking facility.

The SK114 however has a number of T38 variants (ignoring ones that appear to for other lathe brands):

T38
T38R
T38RL

The R is listed as having an extended body with reverse locking, but, the response I had from Axy indicated that both the T38 and T38R have grub screws... so is the reverse locking facility on the T38R something else? The Axy response was "The T38R is threaded one way and then you twist it the other way to lock it at the end of the thread."; which I'm struggling to picture.

The T38RL can... "be threaded either way on to the lathe as it is cross threaded". I assume that means it can be used with either a left or right handed spindle thread (and therefore I can ignore it as it's unnecessary for my AT1628VS)?

Hoping someone may be able to reduce my confusion...

 

[woodpig]

Confusion indeed. If you see the manual here:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/media/downlo ... manual.pdf

It appears to have lock screws accessed through the chuck body and suggests drilling the Lathe shaft for extra security "through the threaded grub screw holes". Sounds like an easy way to damage the threads in the chuck body to me. This begs the question why they make an extended body version if the standard one has lock screws?

If I were you I'd try and visit one of their stores if possible to see exactly what you're buying.

 

[CHJ]

Drilling through the front of the chuck body into the front of the spindle nose was the original concept of the SK114. Evolution to lock the chuck permanently to the spindle.

This was soon objected to by many users as they could not remove the chuck with pieces still mounted so that they remained running true whilst they mounted alternate chucks to do other components or other pieces.
There were other reservations about drilling into lathe spindles on new under warrantee machines and the fact if it was used for more than one chuck the drilled indents would/could be in different locations.

There were other problems as well with the flush back of the chuck fouling many lathe headstocks due to flush or indented spindles.

Hence the production of various versions with extended rear collars to allow more conventional locking and better clearance of the lathe headstock.

Forum threads were raised on the subject at the time of the new design launch with quite a lot of input on the subject from the forum members.

 

[sploo]

I have seen the manual before, and it doesn't really clear stuff up. The bottom left photo indeed seems to show a single drill going through the centre of the chuck (as Chas describes), but then the photo to the right tallies with the text about two 3mm deep holes.

Maybe it's a case that the T38 has the two grub screws (that require drilling the face of the spindle), and the T38R has an extended portion for two grub screws to bite just behind the spindle thread (like the T38 SK100). It's not clear though.

It's a bit of a detour to get to my nearest store (no guarantee they have those models in stock anyway), but it might be worth calling them.

PS One extra confusion is that a review on Axy's site indicates the 100mm Type C dovetail jaws won't mount on the SK114 (you need to buy the 114mm version). The first reply I got from Axy confirmed that. The second reversed that advice, and apparently the 100mm will fit.

 

[woodpig]

Maybe it's a case that the T38 has the two grub screws (that require drilling the face of the spindle), and the T38R has an extended portion for two grub screws to bite just behind the spindle thread (like the T38 SK100).

I think that's correct but a visit to Axminster will confirm this.

 

[CHJ]

The fixings for the auxiliary jaws (holes and safety/location key) is compatible across all Axminster chucks, * whether the ideal PCD of the Jaws will be achievable might be problematic dependant as to whether you have only the Evolution long carries or the old style shorter ones to hand. **

* given a little fine tuning for tightening up machining tolerances over time, I've some 'surplus' stock (2 off) of the old Goliath chucks that were fitted with later style carries that had to be subject to a little fettling of the odd few 'thou. to make them an easy fit across all chucks, they would not even mix and match between the two and had obviously been selected to suit each body. Only thou's and corner relief etc. but the tighter CNC machining of newer stock and older production methods clash some times.

** for instance 80mm jaws fit and work on the 100 and 125mm chucks I have with the old length carries, they may not close completely with the longer carries supplied for the Evolution although they in themselves should fit my chucks.

 

[sploo]

Maybe it's a case that the T38 has the two grub screws (that require drilling the face of the spindle), and the T38R has an extended portion for two grub screws to bite just behind the spindle thread (like the T38 SK100).

I think that's correct but a visit to Axminster will confirm this.

I did just check stock (online) for my local store - none for the various models. But, I did previously find the website claimed no stock for certain chucks, and yet they had plenty in store. I'll give them a call.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I'm trying to get my head around the numerous T38 variants of the SK114 Evolution chuck, but unfortunately I'm not really understanding the replies from Axy's customer support, and can't find third party info.

I have the T38 version of the SK100 chuck (for my Axminster AT1628VS lathe), which has grub screws that grip the spindle as an added security measure. I understood that was effectively a reverse locking facility.

The SK114 however has a number of T38 variants (ignoring ones that appear to for other lathe brands):

T38
T38R
T38RL

The R is listed as having an extended body with reverse locking, but, the response I had from Axy indicated that both the T38 and T38R have grub screws... so is the reverse locking facility on the T38R something else? The Axy response was "The T38R is threaded one way and then you twist it the other way to lock it at the end of the thread."; which I'm struggling to picture.

The T38RL can... "be threaded either way on to the lathe as it is cross threaded". I assume that means it can be used with either a left or right handed spindle thread (and therefore I can ignore it as it's unnecessary for my AT1628VS)?

Hoping someone may be able to reduce my confusion...

The detail Chas has documented is accurate. I also went through this with a very tricky situation because I recently restored a 20 year old Australian built Woodfast lathe. It's spindle thread was also M33/3.5 but it's nose and register were a little unusual. In the end I went to Axy in Basingstoke and asked the Guvnor there if I could borrow one and try it on my lathe at home. Very obligingly he let me and here's the rub.

I, like you had read all the blurb about the different models in the T38 range and according to their advice I needed a 38LR or something (don't remember the actual model number). I didn't want to get a cul-de-sac model in case I changed the lathe. In the end, rather than agonise about this quirky version of the T38 I asked Basingstoke to let me try the regular 38 on my lathe because looking at the diagrams, I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. So that's what I did and due to Axy's relaxed and obliging service, I found it worked a treat. It did indeed fit my spindle perfectly and that's now my go to chuck.

So if possible for you, see if you can repeat my experiment and get hold of the vanilla T38 and see if it fits your lathe. Do you live close to a branch? If not, maybe phone them and ask if they'll ship one to you.

 

[sploo]

The detail Chas has documented is accurate. I also went through this with a very tricky situation because I recently restored a 20 year old Australian built Woodfast lathe. It's spindle thread was also M33/3.5 but it's nose and register were a little unusual. In the end I went to Axy in Basingstoke and asked the Guvnor there if I could borrow one and try it on my lathe at home. Very obligingly he let me and here's the rub.

I, like you had read all the blurb about the different models in the T38 range and according to their advice I needed a 38LR or something (don't remember the actual model number). I didn't want to get a cul-de-sac model in case I changed the lathe. In the end, rather than agonise about this quirky version of the T38 I asked Basingstoke to let me try the regular 38 on my lathe because looking at the diagrams, I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. So that's what I did and due to Axy's relaxed and obliging service, I found it worked a treat. It did indeed fit my spindle perfectly and that's now my go to chuck.

So if possible for you, see if you can repeat my experiment and get hold of the vanilla T38 and see if it fits your lathe. Do you live close to a branch? If not, maybe phone them and ask if they'll ship one to you.

Basingrad is my nearest branch (though a fair detour). I strongly suspect that any of the T38 variants (that aren't marked as being for a specific - other - lathe brand) will fit the 1628VS; the issue is that I'm trying to understand what they're doing with regard to the grub screws (or not, or whether there is some reverse locking mechanism that's different).

There is at least one guy in that store that's a turner (and seems to know his stuff) so maybe I'll get lucky if I phone them and ask.

BTW I assume the advice you got may have related to the T38RL, which is "cross threaded". Perhaps that just means it'll fit a left or right hand M33/3.5 thread, and hence is a little more flexible with lathe brands.

 

[Robbo3]

I have the APTC VS1628 lathe along with an APTC SK100 Clubman chuck & an APTC Goliath chuck, both standard T38 threads.

I also have a 4" Record/Rutlands chuck variant, an M33 collet chuck & a Jet brand M33 to 3/4"x16 adaptor. All fit perfectly.

The old Axminster catalogue has a chart listing the variations; main spindle size (34/33mm), shoulder length (4/6/16mm) & the combined thread & shoulder length (30/29/37mm). As you can see there can be quite a variation.

 

[sploo]

I have the APTC VS1628 lathe along with an APTC SK100 Clubman chuck & an APTC Goliath chuck, both standard T38 threads.

I also have a 4" Record/Rutlands chuck variant, an M33 collet chuck & a Jet brand M33 to 3/4"x16 adaptor. All fit perfectly.

The old Axminster catalogue has a chart listing the variations; main spindle size (34/33mm), shoulder length (4/6/16mm) & the combined thread & shoulder length (30/29/37mm). As you can see there can be quite a variation.

Thanks Robbo. I have (what I believe is) the last printed catalogue (2015), but the information is quite lacking. In fact I don't think it even contains all the SK114 variants that are available on the website. It's a bit bizarre; Axy are normally quite good at this sort of thing, and they even have useful videos explaining their products - but this one's a bit short on detail.

 

[woodpig]

I suspect the T38R will be the best bet as it should not require you to drill your lathe spindle. You're lucky that you have a current Axminster lathe so if the T38R is in stock you can try it on the lathe in store.

 

[CHJ]

.....Thanks Robbo. I have (what I believe is) the last printed catalogue (2015), but the information is quite lacking. In fact I don't think it even contains all the SK114 variants that are available on the website. It's a bit bizarre; Axy are normally quite good at this sort of thing, and they even have useful videos explaining their products - but this one's a bit short on detail.

If you think the current information is bizarre you should have been trying to understand or obtain a chuck when the Evolution was first launched, it was a PR disaster in my eyes.

In what I suspect was a desire to get the design change launched ASAP the promotional advertising in the magazines was way ahead of production, and magazine listings of thread availability, web site listings of the same and actual product availability was in turmoil.
The thread standards available quoted in the glossy adverts changed on a monthly basis and I presume because of publishing deadlines were at odds with reality.

Then came the problems with the realisation that not all lathes out in the wild had the same headstock nose protrusions/clearances that the current Axminster range had and the simplified production and cost containing method of machining from one standard blank would not work etc.

My general impression was that the design, as good as the original concept from a production and extended jaw travel range was it had been designed by a none turner or at least one who failed to research how many other turners worked with their machines.

Producing videos extoling the drilling of locking indents and permanent fixture of the chuck once and for all into the nose of the spindle did nothing to help the concept as far as I could tell from the on line chatter.

It's a very good chuck but it ain't the simplified animal that was first promoted and obviously the production costs have escalated because of the alternate design variations and it would seem that as current information is always contaminated with older facts that have no date of publishing information when doing a web search confusion still reigns.

:twisted:They should have stuck with an ISO backplate compatibility or a more modern lightweight equivalent then there would only have been one front end design to produce (obviously the original concept from a production point of view) and all lathes could have been accommodated and chucks swapped between lathes in seconds if necessary. :twisted:

All of the above is my interpretation of things as I personally saw them unfold but I don't think I've strayed from the pertinant facts.


:twisted: My hobby horse.

 

[sploo]

EDIT: DO NOT RELY ON THIS INFORMATION - I'VE HAD YET ANOTHER CONTRADICTORY SET OF INFO FROM AXMINSTER

I managed to get hold of someone at Axminster this morning who seemed to know his onions (I did phone my local branch, but they weren't sure, and didn't have stock to check).

So...

The T38R is indeed the Evolution equivalent of the SK100 T38 (i.e. extended section at the back with grub screws). I'm not 100% on whether the screw arrangement is identical though.

The T38 is just a short body with no grub screw arrangement.

The T38RL is cut with both a left and right handed thread for lathes that require it (I don't know if it has any locking screws).

As others have noted: you no longer have to drill anything for the reverse locking.

The 100mm Type C dovetail jaws will fit the Evolution. The reason for the 114mm variant is mostly strength (for handling heavier pieces).

T38R it is then!

 

[tangledfeet]

The T38R is indeed the Evolution equivalent of the SK100 T38 (i.e. extended section at the back with grub screws). I'm not 100% on whether the screw arrangement is identical though.

A very timely thread and glad the subject has been raised. I have an SK114 T38RL on back order - see my thread on here several days ago.

Frankly I'm astonished that Axminster, whose customer service is renowned, are so poor at documenting all the variants of a premium product! I used exactly that expression when talking to a supposed 'specialist' this morning; he wasn't sure himself and said he'd asked for a drawing or photo from manufacturing to confirm exactly what the 'R' variant is - I'm sure you've nailed it in your description, sploo.

I'm going to email Axminster the photo below and just seek a 'yes' or a 'no' on whether the T38R variant is similar.

 

[sploo]

So... I've had further contact from Axy that contradicts the information I was previously told.

Having now just had a phone call with one of their guys (supposedly to clear it up) I pointed out that meant there were a few gaping holes in the logic (namely that the "budget" SK100 therefore had features that weren't available on the SK114). They're going to check up again to work it out.

The saga continues...

 

[tangledfeet]

Just off the phone with Dave, Production Manager at Axminster; I'd been speaking and emailing to/with Sam from their 'Business Services Team' and he suggested speaking direct. Dave also had the chuck assembler next to him.

Axminster do not make as standard an SK114 chuck with an extended body as per the SK100 T38 option with reverse locking; this has three grub screws that point towards the centre of the spindle - as per my Sorby Patriot chuck. I have a 2015 Axminster catalogue that shows this on p562.

The reverse locking option on the SK114 is the two grub screws parallel to the spindle that would secure the chuck onto indents that you'd have to drill onto the shoulder of your lathe spindle.

He said that they could make a 'special' version that would offer the extended body but he would need to get back to me on production schedule.

As I'm writing this I've just realised that this should be what the SK114 T38R version is as described on the website... "T38R 33mm x 3.5mm extended body with reverse locking"..?!

 

[sploo]

As I'm writing this I've just realised that this should be what the SK114 T38R version is as described on the website... "T38R 33mm x 3.5mm extended body with reverse locking"..?!

Yep. None of it is clear is it! The manual still even has a photo with someone drilling through the centre of the chuck (what I understand was a very early version).

One of their guys said they'd put together some photos of the various chucks (with details) and send it to me - that was a couple of days ago, but I accept it's not a 5 minute job.

Really strange if the only reverse locking option on the SK114 for their own lathes would require you to drill two small holes into the machine, then (I assume) only be able to unlock and remove the chuck if there wasn't a workpiece on it; unlike their "budget" SK100, which has a good reverse locking mechanism that doesn't require removal of the workpiece!

 

[Grahamshed]

Really strange if the only reverse locking option on the SK114 for their own lathes would require you to drill two small holes into the machine, then (I assume) only be able to unlock and remove the chuck if there wasn't a workpiece on it; unlike their "budget" SK100, which has a good reverse locking mechanism that doesn't require removal of the workpiece!

Thats the whole silliness of it. The locking system is unuseable. I had assumed that was why the T38R was made at an extra £20 on the price but presumably you are saying that they haven't actually made it ?

 

[tangledfeet]

Really strange if the only reverse locking option on the SK114 for their own lathes would require you to drill two small holes into the machine, then (I assume) only be able to unlock and remove the chuck if there wasn't a workpiece on it; unlike their "budget" SK100, which has a good reverse locking mechanism that doesn't require removal of the workpiece!

Thats the whole silliness of it. The locking system is unuseable. I had assumed that was why the T38R was made at an extra £20 on the price but presumably you are saying that they haven't actually made it ?

It does indeed seem the case that they haven't actually yet made the T38R variant of the SK100.

Incredibly... I've just received an email confirming despatch of one SK114 T38R today for delivery on Monday!!! Was not anticipating that sort of service.