Axminster planer thicknesser - further irritation!

[julianf]

Sorry to the chap who is selling one here at the moment - the machine is fine, i just find a few bits irritating on it, the current one being...


The thicknesser table has, what the parts diagram refers to as, an apron around it.

Have a look at this picture -

If you bring it up large, you can see a small strip of metal on the side of the thicknesser table? Grrr....

Why its there, who know. Whilst trying to thickness a wide part today, the job skewed, and rode up on that rail, so the machine gouged the top.

The rail sees to be to stop jobs moving out of range of the table, but its not high enough to do that, and not low enough not to cause bother.

Further, the machine has a lump, so as, if the job does ride up and twist, it then gets caught on the lump, whilst the knives merrily carve their way through the work. If the job wasnt up on the rail it probably wouldnt even get caught! It just seems so poorly designed, that, again, i feel like i must be missing something?

Ive not had this happen before, but i was trying to do wide parts, but short enough to twist.


Can anyone see any purpose for those side rails? Im wondering about either removing them, or re-making them higher, possibly accepting not being able to thickness parts under [x] mm. They wouldnt even need to be many mm higher than the existing ones.

 

[julianf]

After posting, i went and had another look at the machine - the strips are not continious.

So, if youre working on a wide part, it only has to move a touch, and then the feed roller is pushing the job onto the end of the "apron" when it re-starts on the outfeed side. Only one of two things can happen, the roller slips, or the job rides up.

As theyre only a mm or two above the table, theyre kind of largely pointless, so far as i can see? They need to either be higher, or not there at all.

Anyone else with this machine had the same issue?

 

[custard]

Why its there, who know. Whilst trying to thickness a wide part today, the job skewed, and rode up on that rail, so the machine gouged the top.

The rail sees to be to stop jobs moving out of range of the table, but its not high enough to do that, and not low enough not to cause bother.

I'm not familiar with the Axminster machine, but it's not really that different to many of the other P/T's out there. Here's the Felder version,

As you can see, the lip is exactly 3mm in height. Judging from the photo you posted that looks very similar to your machine.

I suspect the problem is operator error. The workpiece needs to be planed flat before it's fed into the thicknesser, if it's not flat it'll tend to skew around under pressure from the feed rollers and any gap will ride up on the lip and cause the problems you mention. Incidentally, it's not good enough to plane up a workpiece, leave it for a few days, then re-feed it through the thicknesser to take it down to final thickness. You need to check it hasn't warped in the meantime, and if it has you need to re-plane a reference face before thicknessing.

The other possibility is that there's insufficient dust extraction. The Felder has a groove machined next to the lip to accommodate the odd small chip that might otherwise raise up the workpiece, it doesn't appear that the Axminster machine has this. Not necessarily a problem, it just needs more regular sweeping out and dust extraction that's fully up to the job.

 

[julianf]

Thank you.

It may well be opperator error, in which case, im all ears! Axminster suggested better lubrication of the table, which i have yet to try.

Logically though, im still unsure -

There is always going to be uneven friction (i would have thought?) so the job will always want to twist slightly. Like even on a flat road with a well setup car, you still need to keep your hands on the wheel, otherwise it will leave the road...

If the job is half the max width of the table, then, if it skews slightly whilst going through, then no problem. But if its close to the limit, or just under the limit, then any skew at all is going to catch the work when the side rails re-start after the blade. Any time it hits that rail when it restarts - its going to write-off the work, as it will ride up on them, and the cutters will gouge - i just see no other possibility? Either the job goes through absolutely 100% without any skew, or it skews and rides on the rail, and gets written off. Or you leave sufficient space at the edge of the job to allow for some skew and hence never operate the machine with full width jobs.

Ill try the lubrication axminster suggest, as it will be easier than re-making the rails, and id love it to work fine... Ie im not just trying to find fault at all, im all for a solution!

 

[El Barto]

My Startrite also has a small lip. Have you tried holding the piece you’re thicknessing and gently guiding it through the thicknesser to begin with so it doesn’t skew?

 

[custard]

Logically though, im still unsure -

There is always going to be uneven friction (i would have thought?) so the job will always want to twist slightly. Like even on a flat road with a well setup car, you still need to keep your hands on the wheel, otherwise it will leave the road...

Don't overthink it.

Start with one freshly planed, flat surface that goes on the underneath. Follow El Barto's suggestion and feed the workpiece in straight and centrally. Follow Axminster's suggestion and ensure the thicknesser table is coated at the start of each working day with the correct, non silicone wax. Take a cut of about 1.0mm. When your knives get blunt sort them promptly.

Do all that and you'll be fine.

Don't do that and all the theorising in the world won't help.

Good luck!

 

[PAC1]

One other possibility if the above suggestions do not work is to check your feed rollers are not gummed up or worn. But the most likely cure is a bit of wax on the bed.

 

[Beau]

I would second Custards post and stress the point that the face on the thicknesses table is properly flat.

 

[Eric The Viking]

My little Kity 419 also has those lips. The only time I've had significant skewing has been either when I've put badly prepped stock through, or I've let the knives go blunt, so it pulls as well as cuts. And the odd occasions when something has skewed (by itself) have usually been on light rather than heavy passes.

I have a problem with the feed rollers though - the main drive is basically a very wide cog with squared-off teeth. If I try to take too small a cut, it can leave parallel marks on the finished stock, which is annoying, and it's an absolute, er, nuisance, for picking up lumps of waste on the teeth, and bruising the finished surface with them.

HTH, E.

 

[RobinBHM]

The shortness of the component is the culprit. I dont like using any timber under about 600mm long.

A short piece slightly bowed can twist round, especially if its quite thick as the feed rollers arent flattening the timber as it goes through.

I think the side rails are there to stop timber getting beyond the end of the cutter.

 

[AJB Temple]

I have the trade version of this machine. As Custard said, keep the bed clean and crank up your extraction. Mine improved no end when I switched my extraction to a powerful cyclone. Waxing the beds is crucial I find, especially in winter for some reason.

 

[custard]

I have a problem with the feed rollers though - the main drive is basically a very wide cog with squared-off teeth. If I try to take too small a cut, it can leave parallel marks on the finished stock

That's very common Eric. It used to be pretty much the standard way all thicknessers were designed, but nowadays they tend to fall into two camps. The toothed feed rollers like yours which effectively have a minimum non-marking cut of around about 0.6 or 0.7mm, they are often preferred by joiners as they can usually take a heavier cut. Secondly is the rubber feed rollers that can take a 0.1mm without marking, these tend to be preferred by furniture makers as you'll often want a very fine final cut to prevent tear out on figured timber, but they often struggle if you try and take off much over about 3mm on a single pass. It's not a fault as such, just different users prioritising different attributes.

 

[WoodMangler]

Waxing the beds is crucial I find, especially in winter for some reason.

Which wax should I use ? (I did look back up the thread, but couldn't find that information).

 

[ColeyS1]

This thread might be useful

viewtopic.php?t=68259
Good stuff.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[custard]

Which wax should I use ?

A specialist machine lubricant wax, non silicone. There are expensive German versions only available from specialist outlets and in large tins, but I'm sure this would do equally well,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ma ... x-ax957553

 

[Sideways]

In case anyone reading can advise - our local "men's shed"'has the trade version of this. It does my head in that the manufacturers used the same type of knobs for adjusting the infeed and outfeed tables. We have people using the machine who can't read inch high black on yellow dymo labels and insist on messing up the outfeed settings when they want to change the depth of cut ! You can't lock the outfeed control using the hex socket grubscrew on that spindle because that's also locks the pivot used to flip the table up for thicknessing.
I don't have a manual for this.
Is there any other way to lock the outfeed table height so users can't mess up the adjustments between blade changes ? Thanks.

 

[sploo]

Waxing the beds is crucial I find, especially in winter for some reason.

Which wax should I use ? (I did look back up the thread, but couldn't find that information).

I find Liberon Lubricating Wax very good.

 

[julianf]

In case anyone reading can advise - our local "men's shed"'has the trade version of this. It does my head in that the manufacturers used the same type of knobs for adjusting the infeed and outfeed tables. We have people using the machine who can't read inch high black on yellow dymo labels and insist on messing up the outfeed settings when they want to change the depth of cut ! You can't lock the outfeed control using the hex socket grubscrew on that spindle because that's also locks the pivot used to flip the table up for thicknessing.
I don't have a manual for this.
Is there any other way to lock the outfeed table height so users can't mess up the adjustments between blade changes ? Thanks.

Im sure that you could remove the knob. I've not looked but it can't be that hard?

As a side note, I never lock down the tables with the cam. I find the table always closes back to the same place without using the cam, but if you use the cam, the table tilts a bit, but not always the same amount.

 

[Al Hoare]

Waxing the beds is crucial I find, especially in winter for some reason.

Which wax should I use ? (I did look back up the thread, but couldn't find that information).

I find Liberon Lubricating Wax very good.

+1 for the Liberon, not doubt there are cheaper alternatives but I have found it to be good, though this time of year as with any wax I guess I have to warm it up in the house for a few hours before trying to apply it. Manly as it has to be poured rather than scooping out of the container.

 

[Mark Begbie]

Useful. Had pieces skew in the thicknesser, but didn't realise it could be due to lack of flatness.

Why its there, who know. Whilst trying to thickness a wide part today, the job skewed, and rode up on that rail, so the machine gouged the top.

The rail sees to be to stop jobs moving out of range of the table, but its not high enough to do that, and not low enough not to cause bother.

I'm not familiar with the Axminster machine, but it's not really that different to many of the other P/T's out there. Here's the Felder version,



As you can see, the lip is exactly 3mm in height. Judging from the photo you posted that looks very similar to your machine.

I suspect the problem is operator error. The workpiece needs to be planed flat before it's fed into the thicknesser, if it's not flat it'll tend to skew around under pressure from the feed rollers and any gap will ride up on the lip and cause the problems you mention. Incidentally, it's not good enough to plane up a workpiece, leave it for a few days, then re-feed it through the thicknesser to take it down to final thickness. You need to check it hasn't warped in the meantime, and if it has you need to re-plane a reference face before thicknessing.

The other possibility is that there's insufficient dust extraction. The Felder has a groove machined next to the lip to accommodate the odd small chip that might otherwise raise up the workpiece, it doesn't appear that the Axminster machine has this. Not necessarily a problem, it just needs more regular sweeping out and dust extraction that's fully up to the job.