Axminster AWC4/Record C26/Rojek/Robland/Hammer Universals???

[AndreB]

Good Afternoon,

I haven't posted for a while, but still reading the forum regularly. Its a great source for someone like myself who is still attempting to work my way up from the bottom of the learning curve.

Curious in regards to members/owners opinions on the above machines, or any other combination/universal machines for that matter. I'm sold on the universal/combination method of work(had separates, didn't like having to shuffle them around the shop every time I wanted to use them). I currently have a Robland/Startrite K260 which I purchased from Modernist several years ago. Its a very solid machine with lots of power and I'm quite happy with it generally, but dust collection is non-existent and some of the guarding is somewhat archaic, to put it lightly. Also, while the sliding table works, I'm still not happy about the level of accuracy even after several lengthy alignment sessions. Lastly, the
planer/thicknesser cutterhead is a two blade, and wondering if I would get a better finish with a 3/4 blade or Tersa head.

I was quite happy to live with this until several months ago, when I took delivery of a Hammer N4400. It was a revelation using such a well-engineered and accurate machine, which started me thinking that I might get the same benefits in relation to the combination machine by upgrading from the 20+ year old K260 to a modern machine.

I've noticed that several members own the Record/Minimax C26, and seem quite happy, but have seen nothing on the Axminster offering. I visited Axminster a few days ago and had a look at the machine, which seems solid and reasonably well built on the surface with a lot of features at a good price. I've also read the review in Good Woodworking 209 in which Andy King seems quite pleased with it. However, I'm curious as to its long term performance in regards to accuracy/durability/reliability, as Laguna in the US sells what seems to be the same machine and opinions over there are somewhat less complementary. However, this may be due to Laguna's reputation as a whole rather than this particular machine. I also have concerns in regards to its country of origin as I've used some pretty nasty Chinese tools over the years.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... 784596.htm

http://www.lagunatools.com/combo/combo-platinum5f

I also had a look at the Rojek KPS310A at Axminster which is well discounted for the standard version currently(minus Squaring carriage, Tersa block, and Scoring with the deluxe version). But, again not much out there on Rojek.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Roje ... 483867.htm

Lastly, I visited Jaycee Tools a few weeks ago, and while they didn't have an HX310 in stock, I had a look at the NLX310 which again seemed to be a very solid machine. Opinions seem to be divided on the older Robland machines, but what's the consensus on the newer offerings?

http://www.roblanduk.com/product-information/28.aspx

I was quite taken with the Hammer C3-31 when I visited Felder in Milton Keynes in the fall, but I'm afraid that the price may be somewhat beyond my Financial Manager's/LOML budget. However, I would be very interested in what people have to say about the C3-31 as the benchmark for these machines, as it seems to be very highly regarded. I don't do this for a living, so a Felder,etc is well out of the question. Although down the road as the current career winds down, it seems like a very appealing
idea to take on some commissions on a part-time basis to supplement the fixed income.

Any opinions, comments, reviews, pros/cons on the above machines from owners/users/other knowledgeable parties would be greatly appreciated.

Apologize for the long-windedness...

Regards,

Andre

 

[Shultzy]

Hi Andre, I have the Record C26. It has the Tersa 3 cutter block and sliding table. The replaceable reversible blades are expensive at £40 a set but are very easy to fit with no adjustment necessary. Bearing in mind that I'm starting from a position of not having had any heavy machinery before it does all I want it to. It is very accurate and repeatable cuts are a doddle. It's a tight fit in my 16 x 8ft workshop but is easy to rotate on its built in wheels. It also has a 5 year guarantee which is useful.

 

[AndreB]

Hi Shultzy,

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated. I tend to work in solid wood rather than panels, and no pieces larger than tables thus far, although you never know... So I'm curious if you find the capacity of the sliding table, planer/thicknesser is sufficient for your needs or do you wish for something larger occasionally? Also, how do you rate the blade lifespan and quality of cut of the Tersa system.

I appreciate your comments on accuracy and repeatability. I'm beginning to lose count of how many times I've had to go back and make another part after an error in measurement, cutting,etc. I find this process is somewhat onerous on my present machine due to its lacking somewhat in accuracy.

Thanks,

Andre

 

[Screw Loose]

The replaceable reversible blades are expensive at £40 a set but are very easy to fit with no adjustment necessary.

Take a look at cutting solutions prices :wink:

http://www.cutting-solutions.co.uk/tersa_knives.html

 

[Joe]

Hello Andre

I am currently waiting on delivery of a C3-31. Unfortunately the despatch has been delayed and I can't seem to get a straight answer as to when (or if) I can expect delivery, or why it has been delayed. This is causing me an inordinate amount of stress as you can imagine. If however I do finally get my hands on it I'd be happy to let you know what I think.

Joel

 

[AndreB]

Hi Joel,

Yes, I'd be quite interested in hearing your opinion on the C3-31. Funnily enough, I went through the same thing with Felder when I ordered my N4400 bandsaw. Ordered in Oct, promised for early to mid Dec, finally delivered 3rd week of January. Wasn't terribly upset however, as it was received in perfect condition and I am over the moon in regards to its power and performance. I was also somewhat prepared for the delay after hearing various stories of issues in regards to Felder customer service. Maybe they build them to order as the build date indicated on the manufacturer plate on my machine was only about a week and a half prior to the delivery date. What options if any did you order with the machine?

Andre

 

[Joe]

They certainly do build them to order, my machine was manufactured last week (ordered end of November). I went for the basic machine (3 phase) and then added a few bits - 1250 sliding table with side extension and extended fence. Also added the thicknessing dial for the P/T.

Joel

 

[Shultzy]

Andre, I could cut an 8x4 in half on the C26, if I had the space, but taking a foot off one end would be extremely difficult to do safely. The planer/thicknesser is 10" which is not a hindrance as most boards wider than that width would be created from more than one piece.

Its difficult to rate the blade lifespan and quality of cut of the Tersa as I don't know how to measure them. The original set of blades were nicked badly when I hit buried staples so I'm on the second set. I've had the machine for 2 years and the quality of the second set is fine.

 

[johnf]

Andre I have the C3 31 I had a record maxi before not impressed
The C3 31 is a very different beast repeatable accuracy , powerful , easy change between functions, super sliding table , get a wheel kit and it moves easily, plenty of add on's table extensions, fold away power feed, dado cutter ect,
8x4 sheets no problem I have been ripping sheets length ways this week my slider has 2.2 mtrs of travel so you just have to push the last 200mm against the fence
buy one you won't regret it .
you are welcome to try mine if you are in sussex any time.
You have to wait a bit for delivery as the are built to order

 

[woodsworth]

I just watched the hammer video's on the multi machine johnf, they look quite impressive. How much does one go for these days? I've been looking at the idea of a multi machine but have been put off by the quality of the machines i seen. But this one looks like it can do the job and some.

 

[johnf]

How much does one go for these days? .

Hi woodsworth
5 k will buy the basic model then you start on the add ons like a wheel kit a dial gauge for the planer thicknesser maybe the longer slider some spindle tooling extension tables the list goes on .
All these things go to make a truly universal machine.
Go on bite the bullet and buy one you can't take the cash with you when you leave this world.

 

[woodsworth]

The price is reasonable in my opinion. The amount i've spent on equipment in the last couple of years for second hand tools that need hours upon hours of fettling and setting up justifies that cost quite easily. I will start the save up process. might take me 6 months though.

I was looking at getting the 12 SIP and that is £1699 by itself. I can sell my spindle moulder, thicknesser, and table saw. This is more doable then i first thought.

Thanks