I was just reading through my old finishing notes which I put up on my website, see http://www.orcamesh.com/Orcamesh/David_Savage.html, and yep you're right Marcros, I had forgotten that blond woods will yellow with oil finishes. So it looks like I need to practice shellac again after all these years, that will be a test! Maybe a simple wax finish will be easier! :lol:
Ash Wall Mounted Display Cabinet - WIP
- Thread starter Orcamesh
- Start date
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woodbloke
Established Member
Looks like it's coming on well, but I winced a bit when I saw the pic of the back panel...all nicely matched apart from the bit with what appears to be a big knot, or swirl in it? If it's not too late, I'd definitely hoik that bit out and replace it with something that matches the other bits.
Finishing ash. Oils will make it go pee coloured :-& over time but it might be worth trying a test piece with Osmo-PolyX. I've just finished a little box in ash and so far it's kept it pretty neutral
Edit - if you do a little Googlisationing there is a site where you can obtain a small 'tester' pot of Osmo, just to see if you like the stuff...I do and don't use anything else now - Rob
Finishing ash. Oils will make it go pee coloured :-& over time but it might be worth trying a test piece with Osmo-PolyX. I've just finished a little box in ash and so far it's kept it pretty neutral
Edit - if you do a little Googlisationing there is a site where you can obtain a small 'tester' pot of Osmo, just to see if you like the stuff...I do and don't use anything else now - Rob
woodbloke":muz1rpdd said:
Thanks for your comments Rob. I thought the knot/swirl added a bit of interest to the otherwise plain grained Ash, but I take all feedback on board. I'm sure I have some more Ash from which I could make a new right hand panel. The frame is not glued together yet.
I've heard before on here about this Osmo-PolyX, I took a look online a while ago and it seemed quite dear. But if a test pot changes my mind then it might be a good option, cost dependent. Thanks for the tip.
cheers
Steve
Chems
Established Member
Looks really nice Steve.
Regarding finish, I did an Ash piece a few years ago and got the same advice re yellowing. In the end I was advised to use Acrylic Lacquer just straight onto the wood. It left the most beautiful finish, I sprayed it on and rubbed it down between coats with a soft 400g paper and still to date its the best finish I've ever had. I think I've got a load of it still in good condition in the workshop if you'd like me to send you some to test with. It adds no colour to the wood only depth and sheen. I'd show you a picture but its not something you can get a feel for in a picture.
Regarding finish, I did an Ash piece a few years ago and got the same advice re yellowing. In the end I was advised to use Acrylic Lacquer just straight onto the wood. It left the most beautiful finish, I sprayed it on and rubbed it down between coats with a soft 400g paper and still to date its the best finish I've ever had. I think I've got a load of it still in good condition in the workshop if you'd like me to send you some to test with. It adds no colour to the wood only depth and sheen. I'd show you a picture but its not something you can get a feel for in a picture.
woodbloke
Established Member
Acrylic lacquer or varnish, as Chems has said is also excellent on ash. I use the matt stuff which is quite hard to find but the only place where it's available locally is Homebase. I've looked round Wickes, B&Poo etc but they only seem to do the satin finish which I'm not all that keen on. The other advantage of acrylic is that you can bang on a couple of brush coats in an hour (de-nib 'twixt coats with a bit of worn 320g if dry) and then wash out the brush in water - Rob
Thanks gents.
I guess you haven't mooched at my website, cos I went on a course with David Savage way back when specifically on finishing techniques & this is on my site. We learned how to do shellac, lacquer, wax, etc. But it was a long time ago, 10 years! I have not made a tremendous amount of stuff in the past 10 years due to bringing up kids, work, moving house (& shop) blah blah blah. But I did make a solid walnut and maple (veneered panel) desk once upon a time, well it's almost complete (I still need to make a couple of drawers -> a round tuit
)! The maple veneered panels of the desk were hand lacquered based on the learnings from David's fantastic course. The results were excellent as you suggest.
I didn't want to lacquer this cabinet because lacquer's downside is that to the touch, as it is basically a plastic layer, it is not that great. For a panel in a desk I wanted a hard wearing surface and that is what it gives you. Although when I tried to hand apply the lacquer to the desk top this was a tall order due to it's large surface area. This should have been sprayed on, but I had/have no spray den, so I did not lacquer the desk top in the end.
But maybe as you rightly suggest lacquer is one fairly certain way of giving this a long lasting and quality finish. As oil seems to be a no-no, lacquer is a good option for retaining colour. The lacquer I have used before is the Chestnut Acrylic Lacquer (from Axminster), and this seems very good. I use a proper squirrel hair brush as recommended by David, this provides a better finish and is less likely to shed hairs.
I guess you haven't mooched at my website, cos I went on a course with David Savage way back when specifically on finishing techniques & this is on my site. We learned how to do shellac, lacquer, wax, etc. But it was a long time ago, 10 years! I have not made a tremendous amount of stuff in the past 10 years due to bringing up kids, work, moving house (& shop) blah blah blah. But I did make a solid walnut and maple (veneered panel) desk once upon a time, well it's almost complete (I still need to make a couple of drawers -> a round tuit
)! The maple veneered panels of the desk were hand lacquered based on the learnings from David's fantastic course. The results were excellent as you suggest. I didn't want to lacquer this cabinet because lacquer's downside is that to the touch, as it is basically a plastic layer, it is not that great. For a panel in a desk I wanted a hard wearing surface and that is what it gives you. Although when I tried to hand apply the lacquer to the desk top this was a tall order due to it's large surface area. This should have been sprayed on, but I had/have no spray den, so I did not lacquer the desk top in the end.
But maybe as you rightly suggest lacquer is one fairly certain way of giving this a long lasting and quality finish. As oil seems to be a no-no, lacquer is a good option for retaining colour. The lacquer I have used before is the Chestnut Acrylic Lacquer (from Axminster), and this seems very good. I use a proper squirrel hair brush as recommended by David, this provides a better finish and is less likely to shed hairs.
shim20
Established Member
looking vey nice and neat, also nice to see another clifton no7 on here, ive got one get on well with it, the extra weight helps i think,
keep up the good work
keep up the good work
Cheers Marcros, good to know the site may be of use to someone, and cheers Shim20, yep, the Clifton No. 7 is very nice to use. The weight definitely helps but then when you have a plane this big it is going to be heavy! With my weight on top of it, it works really really well! ;~)
Finally, an update... :roll:
Well it's still not finished, mainly due to other jobs getting in the way and me making numerous mistakes, but anyway progress has been made. Finally today I received the glass shelves and door panes. Unfortunately the door panes were 2mm too wide and long so didn't fit in the door rebates! The glazier is now trimming them for me.
The photos might not quite be in the right order but you can see some of the work below...
The doors were made with mortice & tenon joints on the Woodrat and hand fettled. The rebate in the back of the carcase for the back was re-rebated as it wasn't quite deep enough for the back. I made a big error on the Rat when cutting the rebates for the glass in the doors and ran too far along the stiles. So I ended up with small cutouts in the corner where the stile meets the rail. :evil: Then I spent hours making tiny pieces of ash to fit and tried to match the grain as closely as I could. I didn't quite manage it but it will have to do. I also decided against re-doing the back panel to remove the knot (sorry Rob, I know you are right, but I just haven't got the time!).
As you can see the hinges were hand chiselled into the doors, with the knuckle being completely recessed in the door so as to move the pivot point out from the carcase (doors are "planted on" to the front edges of the carcase). This meant paring out an angled recess. I finally found that blue masking tape was best with the pale coloured ash, so I could judge when my tenon saw was about to cut into the face of the door. Following the saw cuts I pared out with the chisel.
I can only put 10 photos in here so I will add a few more on the next reply...
Well it's still not finished, mainly due to other jobs getting in the way and me making numerous mistakes, but anyway progress has been made. Finally today I received the glass shelves and door panes. Unfortunately the door panes were 2mm too wide and long so didn't fit in the door rebates! The glazier is now trimming them for me.
The photos might not quite be in the right order but you can see some of the work below...
The doors were made with mortice & tenon joints on the Woodrat and hand fettled. The rebate in the back of the carcase for the back was re-rebated as it wasn't quite deep enough for the back. I made a big error on the Rat when cutting the rebates for the glass in the doors and ran too far along the stiles. So I ended up with small cutouts in the corner where the stile meets the rail. :evil: Then I spent hours making tiny pieces of ash to fit and tried to match the grain as closely as I could. I didn't quite manage it but it will have to do. I also decided against re-doing the back panel to remove the knot (sorry Rob, I know you are right, but I just haven't got the time!).
As you can see the hinges were hand chiselled into the doors, with the knuckle being completely recessed in the door so as to move the pivot point out from the carcase (doors are "planted on" to the front edges of the carcase). This meant paring out an angled recess. I finally found that blue masking tape was best with the pale coloured ash, so I could judge when my tenon saw was about to cut into the face of the door. Following the saw cuts I pared out with the chisel.
I can only put 10 photos in here so I will add a few more on the next reply...
Attachments
I also used a self-centering bit to pilot the holes for the hinge screws and the first one I put in (after pre-screwing in a steel screw to create a threaded hole) snapped off as the brass was so soft and I wasn't fully concentrating! So now I have the brass screw stuck in the first hole. I will just have to epoxy the broken screw head into the hole now!
The mortises were done on my trusty mortiser as you can see. The results were pretty good, not much work needed after that phase.
So far so good, but the next tricky stage is getting the doors perfectly lined up on the carcase, fitting the glazing to the doors and then some handles and concealed magnetic door catches. Oh and I need to lacquer everything...
I'll be back!!!
The mortises were done on my trusty mortiser as you can see. The results were pretty good, not much work needed after that phase.
So far so good, but the next tricky stage is getting the doors perfectly lined up on the carcase, fitting the glazing to the doors and then some handles and concealed magnetic door catches. Oh and I need to lacquer everything...
I'll be back!!!
Attachments
No skills
Established Member
Progress! How are you going to finish the cabinet? have heard that certain finishes (oils?) on ash can go a nasty yellow - not sure if thats correct.
No skills
Established Member
Fair enough
It has been a while since I posted but that's cos I've been a busy bee in the workshop (and on hols of course)...
But right now I'm trying to finish off this project and have come to the point where I need to fix the glass panels into the two doors.
I have cut some quarter round beading and mitred the pieces to surround the glass which sits in a rebate in the door frame.
I intend to drill small ~1.3mm holes (for some brass pins) through the beading and into the frame.
I'm not planning on using any putty, just the small brass pins.
Does anyone see any problems with doing it like this? This is my first glass door I have made and I don't want to mess it up at this late stage of the project!! :roll: I have made enough mistakes so far!
If anyone has any experience of making glass doors for cabinets I'd be glad to hear your advice...
Thanks
Steve
But right now I'm trying to finish off this project and have come to the point where I need to fix the glass panels into the two doors.
I have cut some quarter round beading and mitred the pieces to surround the glass which sits in a rebate in the door frame.
I intend to drill small ~1.3mm holes (for some brass pins) through the beading and into the frame.
I'm not planning on using any putty, just the small brass pins.
Does anyone see any problems with doing it like this? This is my first glass door I have made and I don't want to mess it up at this late stage of the project!! :roll: I have made enough mistakes so far!
If anyone has any experience of making glass doors for cabinets I'd be glad to hear your advice...
Thanks
Steve
Glad to see an update - and comforted that I'm not the only one who likes to let a project take its time!
On the question of the glass and the beading - one thought is that you might prefer the look of making the inside edges black - try it out on some scrap first though. It's definitely better for mirrors, but I think it looks better for clear glass too.
You might want to set the glass on something to stop any possibility of movement, unless it's a really close fit - maybe a few discreet dabs of clear silicone behind the edges.
And for the brass pins - one option is to drill your holes parallel to the surface of the glass, then when you need to hammer the pins in, rest the hammer head on a piece of card against the glass and just slide it along the surface of the glass to hit the pins. That way there is no risk of over-swinging and hitting the glass. (There is even a design of special glazier's hammer with a prism shaped head, designed to be used like this.)
On the question of the glass and the beading - one thought is that you might prefer the look of making the inside edges black - try it out on some scrap first though. It's definitely better for mirrors, but I think it looks better for clear glass too.
You might want to set the glass on something to stop any possibility of movement, unless it's a really close fit - maybe a few discreet dabs of clear silicone behind the edges.
And for the brass pins - one option is to drill your holes parallel to the surface of the glass, then when you need to hammer the pins in, rest the hammer head on a piece of card against the glass and just slide it along the surface of the glass to hit the pins. That way there is no risk of over-swinging and hitting the glass. (There is even a design of special glazier's hammer with a prism shaped head, designed to be used like this.)
AndyT":3fm6xnbt said:
OK thanks Andy.
I don't like to let a project take its time it's just everything else getting in the way!
I'm not sure the black edges will work with this design so I might give that a miss on this occasion, but thanks for idea.
I like the idea of the clear silicone so will try that for sure.
The brass pins I've mustered are from those picture hanging hooks! They have slightly protruding pin head which concerns me from the viewpoint that it will be difficult to bury in the beading and so these may not be best for this application. Question is, where do you get such brass pins with thin heads such that they disappear into the beading? So I might have to source some others...
Good idea about the glaziers hammer, now got one on order, and it looks like it will be much easier and safer to use.
Anyway thanks for your help, this is invaluable to a part time hobbyist!
cheers
Steve
OK that's it, I've had enough!!!
It's finished (pretty much!). I still have to decide on door pulls, I might make some out of ebony on the lathe but it will depend on what the customer (my son) wants! I have some bought in metal pulls but I think they look naff. Anyway, should only be a small job compared to making the rest of this beast. Blimey it's heavy with all that glass in. I just hope that it stays on the wall when it finally gets mounted.
For those interested, the finish I used was a first coat of Chestnut acrylic sanding sealer, then two coats of acrylic lacquer, finally a layer of bison wax. I would say it has a matt gloss finish, but it depends on lighting conditions of course. Anyhow I'm happy with it and so is my lad.
The door catches are rare earth magnets, one glued into each of the ebony veneered holes you can see on the carcase (x4) and two in each door. Luckily I remembered to put the magnets in the right way round so that they attract! :roll: About 1mm of ebony is veneered over the top and because they are quite strong magnets when the door is closed there is enough force to shut it tight. This was unknown territory but I jigged up some trial magnets and veneer before committing them to the actual cabinet.
The purpose of this project for me was to learn as much as possible, there were many mistakes made. I'm not going to list them but let's just say that I hope I don't repeat them. One of the biggest cock ups was to go too far with the Woodrat when I was routing the rebates for the glass doors. I ended up trying to grain match some very small new pieces of ash into the framework (where I had removed too much wood). Maybe I should have started again but I decided to continue and as the mistake is on the inside of the cabinet for the most parts people will not see it! Overall I'm quite pleased considering I have never made anything like this before and I am a self taught part time hobbyist!
Anyway, here's a few shots of it in our flaky kitchen (another project which needs doing next...)...
It's finished (pretty much!). I still have to decide on door pulls, I might make some out of ebony on the lathe but it will depend on what the customer (my son) wants! I have some bought in metal pulls but I think they look naff. Anyway, should only be a small job compared to making the rest of this beast. Blimey it's heavy with all that glass in. I just hope that it stays on the wall when it finally gets mounted.
For those interested, the finish I used was a first coat of Chestnut acrylic sanding sealer, then two coats of acrylic lacquer, finally a layer of bison wax. I would say it has a matt gloss finish, but it depends on lighting conditions of course. Anyhow I'm happy with it and so is my lad.
The door catches are rare earth magnets, one glued into each of the ebony veneered holes you can see on the carcase (x4) and two in each door. Luckily I remembered to put the magnets in the right way round so that they attract! :roll: About 1mm of ebony is veneered over the top and because they are quite strong magnets when the door is closed there is enough force to shut it tight. This was unknown territory but I jigged up some trial magnets and veneer before committing them to the actual cabinet.
The purpose of this project for me was to learn as much as possible, there were many mistakes made. I'm not going to list them but let's just say that I hope I don't repeat them. One of the biggest cock ups was to go too far with the Woodrat when I was routing the rebates for the glass doors. I ended up trying to grain match some very small new pieces of ash into the framework (where I had removed too much wood). Maybe I should have started again but I decided to continue and as the mistake is on the inside of the cabinet for the most parts people will not see it! Overall I'm quite pleased considering I have never made anything like this before and I am a self taught part time hobbyist!
Anyway, here's a few shots of it in our flaky kitchen (another project which needs doing next...)...
Attachments
AndyT":3lofc3cs said:
Thanks Andy!
But, ermmm, it's not for tools! :roll: It's for displaying toy soldiers!
Anyway, the glaziers hammer was ok, I am in two minds as to whether this helped over a normal hammer. The rotating triangular end can rotate in swing and accidentally catch your beading making small dents. So especially when you get the nail head near the end you need to turn it around and use the other normal end. The handle on this chinese made hammer was also as rough as a badgers wotsit, so I'll have to improve this one day...
Thanks for your tip about the silicone too, I applied this in the corners of the rebates in the doors and laid the glass down, then squeezed a bit more into the gaps in the corners before placing the beading in. It's now rock solid!
Anyhow, thanks to you and all the others who have contributed to the project/replied to my questions along the way, much appreciated!
Steve
