Ash Wall Mounted Display Cabinet - WIP
- Thread starter Orcamesh
- Start date
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woodbloke":2cg19w1x said:
Thanks again Rob. You are a star!
I also found these links :
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/print.asp?p=650
http://paulsebastianstudio.com/2010/12/krenov-cabinet-progress-5/?show=gallery
I think I get it now but need to scratch my head a little bit more...! :-k
I've ordered 3 Krenov books, one has arrived, the rest hopefully will turn up soon. So I hope there are some more clues in his books.
cheers
Steve
mickthetree
Established Member
Hey Steve
WP stands for Worcester Parsons.
I work at Isaac Lord so if you ever need any help let me know.
Cheers
Paul
WP stands for Worcester Parsons.
I work at Isaac Lord so if you ever need any help let me know.
Cheers
Paul
Bit more progress...
After a fair amount of hand planing the 4 main boards which make up the cabinet sides, top & bottom, I have now setup the Woodrat to do the dovetails. I have decided to do through DTs simply because I like to see them!
The Rat is now setup to cut the pins, but it got too late last night to make a noise with the router so will continue when I get the right moment. The technique to cut the DTs is pretty easy on the Rat (if you follow Mike Humphrey's course notes). I will next make a cut on a test board to make a single pin and test the fit to the pre-cut DTs (as seen below), once happy with the fit I will cut pins on the top & bottom boards...
After a fair amount of hand planing the 4 main boards which make up the cabinet sides, top & bottom, I have now setup the Woodrat to do the dovetails. I have decided to do through DTs simply because I like to see them!
The Rat is now setup to cut the pins, but it got too late last night to make a noise with the router so will continue when I get the right moment. The technique to cut the DTs is pretty easy on the Rat (if you follow Mike Humphrey's course notes). I will next make a cut on a test board to make a single pin and test the fit to the pre-cut DTs (as seen below), once happy with the fit I will cut pins on the top & bottom boards...
Attachments
The Rat was setup for the cutting the pins and some test pins made. I maybe could have spent much more time faffing about with the settings to get it absolutely spot on but I was happy enough with what I achieved. There are a few very very small gaps which seem to be due to a slightly different angle cut wrt the tails. This can only be altered by messing about with the pivot point on the Rat (Centre Plate -> Button Settings) so that the angle of the pins are cut differently. Anyway, I have what I have now!
I think I also messed up which way round the boards should have been put in the Rat, i.e. the relative board orientation has ended up being different but I am not a pro so am not going to get too upset on this occasion! It still looks good to me.
For those who don't know, the board with the tails already cut is placed in the marker position (left hand clamp) on the left hand side of the Rat. When I first cut the dovetail cutter through a thin piece of ply, I then moved it from the cutter position (right hand clamp) to the marker position where I marked the profile of the DT cutter onto the front face of the Woodrat. This is then used to line up each further cut. When cutting the dovetails, a marking jig is placed in the marker position (this is just a vertical piece of wood clamped in the marker position with another piece of wood attached to this with a hot melt glue gun or similar, 90 degrees relative to the vertical piece. The top surface of which is aligned with the top surface of the Woodrat when clamped in position.). This is used for making pencil marks on which are relative to the left hand side of the marker position clamp (fixed fence). At this point in time the Rat is not moved east/west, so that the position of the cutter is maintained relative to the marker position. We can now mark pencil lines relative to the cutter position on the marking jig, then when the cutter position is moved east/west, we can align the cutter relative to the original starting cutter position of the dovetail bit. Hope this makes sense!?!!
Cutting the remaining dovetails along the width of the board is then worked out in your head based on the diameter of the dovetail bit and the spacing you wish to achieve between DTs. The half DTs at each end of the board I worked out to be 11mm from the edge of the board (at the base of the DT cutter), so this is just over half the diameter of the DT bit (15mm diameter) plus a bit more. Then I calculated 15mm for the next piece of wood to remain and then I moved another 7.5mm because of the dovetail bit giving 33.5mm from the side of the marking jig or left hand fixed fence (this was marked on the top surface of the marking jig). Then the first cut could be made. The board is then flipped around in the cutting position 3 more times to cut at both ends of the board and two sides (one cut from each side edge). This saves time and saves losing accuracy. The next cut position is then calculated and the board moved along east/west and the flip and cut process repeated.
Once the two side panel boards are cut the pins can be setup which is where the centre plate comes in and the aluminium north-south guide rails are removed because we want to pull the router through at an angle relative to the front face of the Rat. The centre plate forms the pivot point from which the router is pulled through at an angle. One of the side boards with the DTs cut can be placed in the left hand marker position clamp and aligned with the previously marked dovetail profile (which is marked in pencil on the front face of the Rat). To calculate the button position in the centre plate you use the given formula which is [ (DT Bit diameter + Straight Bit diameter)/2 x Slope = Button Setting ], for me I was using a 6.35 mm straight bit (upward spiral) so this gave (15+6.35)/2 x 6 = 64, where a 1:6 dovetail bit was used.
The spirals (left & right) were then setup using a sliding bevel set to the angle of the 1:6 DT bit. I used a Veritas 1:6 dovetail marking template to setup the sliding bevel. This is then laid on the woodrat base plate against the side edge of the router plate (which is positioned roughly angled) and the other face of the sliding bevel against the front edge of the base plate. Then the position of the router plate is kept still whilst the spiral is tightened up. Then do the same for the other spiral.
Now you are ready for a test cut (of a pin). It may take a few goes to get it spot on but once you have made soem further small tweaks to the button setting and/or the spiral settings you can cut pins until your heart is content!
I hope this helps someone out there, you never know...?
Apologies to those of you who prefer hand cut dovetails, I do do these occasionally but I didn't want to ruin my son's cabinet on this occasion as I am no expert at hand cut DTs (yet)!
cheers
Steve
I think I also messed up which way round the boards should have been put in the Rat, i.e. the relative board orientation has ended up being different but I am not a pro so am not going to get too upset on this occasion! It still looks good to me.
For those who don't know, the board with the tails already cut is placed in the marker position (left hand clamp) on the left hand side of the Rat. When I first cut the dovetail cutter through a thin piece of ply, I then moved it from the cutter position (right hand clamp) to the marker position where I marked the profile of the DT cutter onto the front face of the Woodrat. This is then used to line up each further cut. When cutting the dovetails, a marking jig is placed in the marker position (this is just a vertical piece of wood clamped in the marker position with another piece of wood attached to this with a hot melt glue gun or similar, 90 degrees relative to the vertical piece. The top surface of which is aligned with the top surface of the Woodrat when clamped in position.). This is used for making pencil marks on which are relative to the left hand side of the marker position clamp (fixed fence). At this point in time the Rat is not moved east/west, so that the position of the cutter is maintained relative to the marker position. We can now mark pencil lines relative to the cutter position on the marking jig, then when the cutter position is moved east/west, we can align the cutter relative to the original starting cutter position of the dovetail bit. Hope this makes sense!?!!
Cutting the remaining dovetails along the width of the board is then worked out in your head based on the diameter of the dovetail bit and the spacing you wish to achieve between DTs. The half DTs at each end of the board I worked out to be 11mm from the edge of the board (at the base of the DT cutter), so this is just over half the diameter of the DT bit (15mm diameter) plus a bit more. Then I calculated 15mm for the next piece of wood to remain and then I moved another 7.5mm because of the dovetail bit giving 33.5mm from the side of the marking jig or left hand fixed fence (this was marked on the top surface of the marking jig). Then the first cut could be made. The board is then flipped around in the cutting position 3 more times to cut at both ends of the board and two sides (one cut from each side edge). This saves time and saves losing accuracy. The next cut position is then calculated and the board moved along east/west and the flip and cut process repeated.
Once the two side panel boards are cut the pins can be setup which is where the centre plate comes in and the aluminium north-south guide rails are removed because we want to pull the router through at an angle relative to the front face of the Rat. The centre plate forms the pivot point from which the router is pulled through at an angle. One of the side boards with the DTs cut can be placed in the left hand marker position clamp and aligned with the previously marked dovetail profile (which is marked in pencil on the front face of the Rat). To calculate the button position in the centre plate you use the given formula which is [ (DT Bit diameter + Straight Bit diameter)/2 x Slope = Button Setting ], for me I was using a 6.35 mm straight bit (upward spiral) so this gave (15+6.35)/2 x 6 = 64, where a 1:6 dovetail bit was used.
The spirals (left & right) were then setup using a sliding bevel set to the angle of the 1:6 DT bit. I used a Veritas 1:6 dovetail marking template to setup the sliding bevel. This is then laid on the woodrat base plate against the side edge of the router plate (which is positioned roughly angled) and the other face of the sliding bevel against the front edge of the base plate. Then the position of the router plate is kept still whilst the spiral is tightened up. Then do the same for the other spiral.
Now you are ready for a test cut (of a pin). It may take a few goes to get it spot on but once you have made soem further small tweaks to the button setting and/or the spiral settings you can cut pins until your heart is content!
I hope this helps someone out there, you never know...?
Apologies to those of you who prefer hand cut dovetails, I do do these occasionally but I didn't want to ruin my son's cabinet on this occasion as I am no expert at hand cut DTs (yet)!
cheers
Steve
Attachments
Just thought I would add some further photos I took of the dovetailing procedure on the Woodrat. I realise there maybe some other previous posts on this but, there was a query about doing this in the General Woodworking board yesterday so here we go...
Hopefully it will help someone out there. If anyone has any questions or comments feel free to chip in?
Hopefully it will help someone out there. If anyone has any questions or comments feel free to chip in?
Attachments
No progress since doing the dovetails, but next steps will be to drill the holes for shelf supports in the carcass sides. The shelves will be glass and I have a couple of questions if anyone can help...
For the glass shelves I have decided to use 6mm toughened glass with polished edges, they will be approximately 760x140mm, is this thickness of glass too much or not enough? I think it is ok because the display cabinet is only for displaying small objects (plastic models).
For the glass doors (with wooden frames), I intend to use 4mm toughened glass, but I see that some others have used 2mm glass for display cabinets, so I am not sure whether 4mm is overkill? Can anyone comment on this?
I've never used glass before so any help will be greatly appreciated!
This morning I have bought some macassar and gabon ebony so will be experimenting on the lathe now to make some door pulls and some shelf support pegs. I hope to use the macassar because it has a bit more character (brown streaks). But let's see how my tool edges hold up and see if I can remember how to turn!
Once the shelf support holes are drilled in the carcass sides I can then glue it up and clean up the edges. After that I can rout the rebate for the back. I will probably finish the carcass before glue up, & I need to decide on what finish I am going to use this time, ummmm, decisions decisions...
cheers
Steve
For the glass shelves I have decided to use 6mm toughened glass with polished edges, they will be approximately 760x140mm, is this thickness of glass too much or not enough? I think it is ok because the display cabinet is only for displaying small objects (plastic models).
For the glass doors (with wooden frames), I intend to use 4mm toughened glass, but I see that some others have used 2mm glass for display cabinets, so I am not sure whether 4mm is overkill? Can anyone comment on this?
I've never used glass before so any help will be greatly appreciated!
This morning I have bought some macassar and gabon ebony so will be experimenting on the lathe now to make some door pulls and some shelf support pegs. I hope to use the macassar because it has a bit more character (brown streaks). But let's see how my tool edges hold up and see if I can remember how to turn!
Once the shelf support holes are drilled in the carcass sides I can then glue it up and clean up the edges. After that I can rout the rebate for the back. I will probably finish the carcass before glue up, & I need to decide on what finish I am going to use this time, ummmm, decisions decisions...
cheers
Steve
No progress since doing the dovetails, but next steps will be to drill the holes for shelf supports in the carcass sides. The shelves will be glass and I have a couple of questions if anyone can help...
For the glass shelves I have decided to use 6mm toughened glass with polished edges, they will be approximately 760x140mm, is this thickness of glass too much or not enough? I think it is ok because the display cabinet is only for displaying small objects (plastic models).
For the glass doors (with wooden frames), I intend to use 4mm toughened glass, but I see that some others have used 2mm glass for display cabinets, so I am not sure whether 4mm is overkill? Can anyone comment on this?
I've never used glass before so any help will be greatly appreciated!
This morning I have bought some macassar and gabon ebony so will be experimenting on the lathe now to make some door pulls and some shelf support pegs. I hope to use the macassar because it has a bit more character (brown streaks). But let's see how my tool edges hold up and see if I can remember how to turn!
Once the shelf support holes are drilled in the carcass sides I can then glue it up and clean up the edges. After that I can rout the rebate for the back. I will probably finish the carcass before glue up, & I need to decide on what finish I am going to use this time, ummmm, decisions decisions...
cheers
Steve
For the glass shelves I have decided to use 6mm toughened glass with polished edges, they will be approximately 760x140mm, is this thickness of glass too much or not enough? I think it is ok because the display cabinet is only for displaying small objects (plastic models).
For the glass doors (with wooden frames), I intend to use 4mm toughened glass, but I see that some others have used 2mm glass for display cabinets, so I am not sure whether 4mm is overkill? Can anyone comment on this?
I've never used glass before so any help will be greatly appreciated!
This morning I have bought some macassar and gabon ebony so will be experimenting on the lathe now to make some door pulls and some shelf support pegs. I hope to use the macassar because it has a bit more character (brown streaks). But let's see how my tool edges hold up and see if I can remember how to turn!
Once the shelf support holes are drilled in the carcass sides I can then glue it up and clean up the edges. After that I can rout the rebate for the back. I will probably finish the carcass before glue up, & I need to decide on what finish I am going to use this time, ummmm, decisions decisions...
cheers
Steve
No skills
Established Member
For the shelves the thickness is plenty, how big are the panes for the doors? (sorry not paid that much attension, just looked at the pics ) tbh I'd prolly go with the 4mm for piece of mind even if it was not strictly needed.
) tbh I'd prolly go with the 4mm for piece of mind even if it was not strictly needed.No skills":1bpt675p said:For the shelves the thickness is plenty, how big are the panes for the doors? (sorry not paid that much attension, just looked at the pics
Thanks No Skills.
The panes will be about 350x450mm, sitting in a rebate.
Don't know if that changes anything, but you are probably right to be on the safe side.
cheers
Steve
Weekend progress, so far...
I cut up the macassar ebony (intended for the glass shelf support pegs) on the bandsaw into 3 strips, the two smaller strips were 15 mm square by 460mm long.
What I wanted make was some shelf support pegs as in the photo of my sketch. The challenge was how to make 12 of them (4 per shelf/3shelves). Firstly there would have to be a combination of turning and routing. This is where my trusty Woodrat comes in again! I first put the strips thru the P/T, this took them down to about 13mm square. I then marked up the centres at each end, made a hole and mounted a strip on the lathe. Then I proceeded to use a roughing gouge to turn the strip down to the wanted 10mm diameter. Each end was left square so that I could still mount the strip on the Woodrat for milling the flat (see hand sketch).
Machine surface planing the strips square was not so easy as this ebony is as tough as old boots! :shock: So some hand planing was in order to create the face edge and side before final thicknessing in the P/T. See photo. After the initial turning I mounted the strip on the horizontal table on the Woodrat by holding it in between two moveable clamping supports and then hot melt glue applied at each end to stop any north/south movement during routing. then the strip is moved to the central position under the router plate, the straight spiral bit is brought down to the surface of the ebony (turned section) and bit is zeroed. Then I proceeded to rout down about 1.5mm. This created the "flat" in the side of the ebony.
The ebony strip was then remounted in the lathe, but I soon ran into problems trying to cut the remaining 4mm diameter shafts (these are for inserting into holes drilled/routed in the Ash carcass side walls). The ebony was flexing as I thought it might, and even with holding behind the strip during turning one handed it was too tough and I thought it was going to snap so I aborted! :twisted:
So then I thought well, if I just cut each individual peg out one by one and work on it in my dovetail jaws, then I could finish off the remaining pegs. So this is what I did and it seems to have worked!
I cut up the macassar ebony (intended for the glass shelf support pegs) on the bandsaw into 3 strips, the two smaller strips were 15 mm square by 460mm long.
What I wanted make was some shelf support pegs as in the photo of my sketch. The challenge was how to make 12 of them (4 per shelf/3shelves). Firstly there would have to be a combination of turning and routing. This is where my trusty Woodrat comes in again! I first put the strips thru the P/T, this took them down to about 13mm square. I then marked up the centres at each end, made a hole and mounted a strip on the lathe. Then I proceeded to use a roughing gouge to turn the strip down to the wanted 10mm diameter. Each end was left square so that I could still mount the strip on the Woodrat for milling the flat (see hand sketch).
Machine surface planing the strips square was not so easy as this ebony is as tough as old boots! :shock: So some hand planing was in order to create the face edge and side before final thicknessing in the P/T. See photo. After the initial turning I mounted the strip on the horizontal table on the Woodrat by holding it in between two moveable clamping supports and then hot melt glue applied at each end to stop any north/south movement during routing. then the strip is moved to the central position under the router plate, the straight spiral bit is brought down to the surface of the ebony (turned section) and bit is zeroed. Then I proceeded to rout down about 1.5mm. This created the "flat" in the side of the ebony.
The ebony strip was then remounted in the lathe, but I soon ran into problems trying to cut the remaining 4mm diameter shafts (these are for inserting into holes drilled/routed in the Ash carcass side walls). The ebony was flexing as I thought it might, and even with holding behind the strip during turning one handed it was too tough and I thought it was going to snap so I aborted! :twisted:
So then I thought well, if I just cut each individual peg out one by one and work on it in my dovetail jaws, then I could finish off the remaining pegs. So this is what I did and it seems to have worked!
Attachments
Just a few more photos just showing the other stages of producing the first 6 pegs...
Still got 6 more to make and then some fine tuning with hand tools, and I hope they will turn out ok!
Thanks for looking
cheers
Steve
Still got 6 more to make and then some fine tuning with hand tools, and I hope they will turn out ok!
Thanks for looking
cheers
Steve
Attachments
Not so much of an update, well I finished the other 6 shelf support pegs last night so they are all now ready for final finishing and I can now get on with the carcass, back and doors soon now. It has been very fiddly work making these small shelf supports but I still think they will be nicer than anything shop bought. It remains to be seen if they are also fit for function, but I think they should be ok. If they are too slippery then maybe a small piece of baize could be glued on to the flats to stop the glass shelf from sliding around? We'll see...
As for this thread, I just wondered if what I have been writing/showing here is of any use to anyone? I hope it is of interest to some people, but if not then I would equally be happy to hear feedback about what you would like to see or not see? I have tried to include as much detail as possible to show how i have been working but of course I don't take photos of absolutely everything. I am still a learner (& I guess you can easily tell) so really I am sharing my pain too when and where this comes up! Anyway, feel free to let me know what you think (dangerous, I know)!
cheers
Steve
As for this thread, I just wondered if what I have been writing/showing here is of any use to anyone? I hope it is of interest to some people, but if not then I would equally be happy to hear feedback about what you would like to see or not see? I have tried to include as much detail as possible to show how i have been working but of course I don't take photos of absolutely everything. I am still a learner (& I guess you can easily tell) so really I am sharing my pain too when and where this comes up! Anyway, feel free to let me know what you think (dangerous, I know)!
cheers
Steve
Finally an update!
Work has started now the season is underway again. The status is that the dovetail joints are now glued up (but the pins not yet planed flush with the side of the carcass) and a rebate routed for the back panel. The shelf peg holes are now drilled and erroneous alignment corrected! Luckily I got away with that faux pas. The back panel frame parts are now cut to size to fit the rebate and are now slotted (4mm) to receive the ash panels (x2). I am just in the middle of finishing the tenons on the ends of the frame parts. Then I need to cut the panels to size and glue adjacent panels together. After this I can fit the back panel and then move onto the doors.
Some pics below...
cheers
Steve
PS. My website has now been significantly updated with this project and my blog on bits & pieces I did in the shop last year. Might be worth a look? All comments/feedback welcome!
Work has started now the season is underway again. The status is that the dovetail joints are now glued up (but the pins not yet planed flush with the side of the carcass) and a rebate routed for the back panel. The shelf peg holes are now drilled and erroneous alignment corrected! Luckily I got away with that faux pas. The back panel frame parts are now cut to size to fit the rebate and are now slotted (4mm) to receive the ash panels (x2). I am just in the middle of finishing the tenons on the ends of the frame parts. Then I need to cut the panels to size and glue adjacent panels together. After this I can fit the back panel and then move onto the doors.
Some pics below...
cheers
Steve
PS. My website has now been significantly updated with this project and my blog on bits & pieces I did in the shop last year. Might be worth a look? All comments/feedback welcome!
Attachments
I've now completed the back after a wee while sorting the panels out and fettling the frames. I made a few errors (again) but nothing which will be seen at the end of the day! Phew! Sorry no book matched panels here, I am more concerned about learning how to make the cabinet rather than spend extra energy on things which will make this even more complex than it already seems to be to me. There's a couple of photos below...
Anyway, in one of the other below photos you will see my drill press with a magnifying lamp next to it and an Axminster catalogue left open on the drill press jig. I walked in one day to find that the catalogue had a nasty black burn mark in it (you might just see the burn mark on the right hand page next to the top right hand corner of a pink section showing a set of chisels). Luckily for me only the top 5 or so pages had been scorched by the sun through the magnifying lamp. The sunshine had obviously been magnified via the shop window and the lamp and onto the page of the catalogue. This has been a real wake up call. It could have been disastrous.
My magnifying lamp is now tucked away, out of range of any sunlight which might come through the window.
Next, I will be making the doors for this cabinet and then hope to be in a position to order the glass shelves and glass panels for the doors.
More on that in the next few weeks...
Anyway, in one of the other below photos you will see my drill press with a magnifying lamp next to it and an Axminster catalogue left open on the drill press jig. I walked in one day to find that the catalogue had a nasty black burn mark in it (you might just see the burn mark on the right hand page next to the top right hand corner of a pink section showing a set of chisels). Luckily for me only the top 5 or so pages had been scorched by the sun through the magnifying lamp. The sunshine had obviously been magnified via the shop window and the lamp and onto the page of the catalogue. This has been a real wake up call.
It could have been disastrous.My magnifying lamp is now tucked away, out of range of any sunlight which might come through the window.
Next, I will be making the doors for this cabinet and then hope to be in a position to order the glass shelves and glass panels for the doors.
More on that in the next few weeks...
Attachments
marcros":3iq5fi2d said:
At the moment there is no finish applied, but the plan is to use an oil of some sort (Danish or other similar oil). It's a display cabinet so it shouldn't get bashed too much. If it were a table top then maybe something else should be applied, e.g. lacquer or varnish etc. I will probably oil the panels before glueing the panel frames together as it will be easier to make a neat job of this whilst the panels are not in situ. I don't have any spray facilities so whatever I do it will be hand applied.
If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to donate...?
