Anyone installed an external flue for a log burning stove in a two storey house?

[bloke_down_the_pub]

Hello,

Just in the process of buying a chalet bungalow c1980 which has no chimney. I know, it's insane, what were they thinking about?! [I suppose dreaming of limitless north sea gas supplies!].

I've had a woodburner for years and also have around 3 years' worth of logs, which will hopefully be coming with me (the logs that is).

I'm guessing, the most likely option for installing a log burner will be fitting an external tubular chimney. So I was wondeirng if this is a DIY job, or something that a licensed installer has to do?

Anyone done this?

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hello,

Just in the process of buying a chalet bungalow c1980 which has no chimney. I know, it's insane, what were they thinking about?! [I suppose dreaming of limitless north sea gas supplies!].

I've had a woodburner for years and also have around 3 years' worth of logs, which will hopefully be coming with me (the logs that is).

I'm guessing, the most likely option for installing a log burner will be fitting an external tubular chimney. So I was wondeirng if this is a DIY job, or something that a licensed installer has to do?

Anyone done this?

Building Regs apply to external flues - especially relating to the position of the flue terminal. There are also HETAS regs/rules to be followed, covering things like air supply to the room (as I recall). There may be some overlap between BRegs/HETAS.

You may possibly also need planning permission - it would be wise to check with the local planning authority.

I think you probably could do it yourself, but you would be extremely unwise not to fully acquaint yourself with the 'rules'. I always have CO/Heat detectors in any room with a solid fuel appliance, whatever the rules may or may not say.

 

[Lefley]

I'd be much more worried about insurance. If you install yourself, and you have a fire, I'm sure insurance would not cover you. In Canada you could install, but get a reputable installer to certify the install. Then you are good to go here. They also up your insurance here for each wood burner you have in house.

 

[Yojevol]

When extended our house we had to relocate the woodburner which necessitated a new internal flue and stack. Details of my rather unconventional arrangement were approved by Building Control. All the work was done by me.
I've also installed a woodburner in my workshop which is an insulated tube system going straight up through the roof. Again a DIY job. There are certain rules you must comply with which, eg, height above roof, clearance from combustible building materials.
Brian

 

[bloke_down_the_pub]

Thanks Woody2Shoes. I'll do that. The local plsnning portal is a bit vague. Talks about flues being okay, if not on front (visible from road I guess). This house is on a corner so might be tricker since visible on two sides. Nothing is ever easy!!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I was advised to use a Hetas registered installer rather than have a DIY/builder installation and then try to get Building Control to pass it, because a registered installer will know the regulations better than an inspector who will err on what he considers the safe side of anything he's not certain about.
Have a look at Dowling Stoves - Home
Expensive, but no ongoing costs - no grids, grates, baffles or bricks, nothing to replace other than the glass if you break it.

 

[eribaMotters]

We had a similar situation a few years ago on the refurb of a late 70's bungalow. You need to read up on Document J, which I have attached. I was politely informed by building control that I was "over-egging" it in my interpretation of it as it is a guidance document.
Basically we had an existing burner that did not meet the latest spec as it was continental, as was the size of the flue outlet. I sought an approved fitter which was not easy and as I was going through a loft void was limited to who could fit it. A certificate was also given along with a "plate" that was fitted next to electricity and gas meters. I needed something official as I was under building control and planning constraints.
I built the hearth with a cast iron air vent under the centre of the burner in case it was needed. The walls I lined with cement board and ensured I had the correct spacings. As the burner was less than 5Kw and due to the age of the property it was unsure if this was needed. The vent was not fully through into the floor void but was ready to break through if needed.
The flue became a twin wall below ceiling level, though a steel plate and up through the roof void. In the loft was a cage around it ensuring free air space and nothing could touch it.
Once through the tiled roof it took a bit of calculation as to high high the flue needed to be. It has to be the best of several options as outlined in Doc J.
We paid about £1,300 for the fitting, which did hurt as I'd previously installed a few burners into chimneys at little cost.

Colin

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We paid (2016) £400 for the fitting of ours, the details being much the same as Colin's. Took a day and a half.
£1100 for the stove, £1200 for the flue.

 

[Spectric]

I'm guessing, the most likely option for installing a log burner will be fitting an external tubular chimney. So I was wondeirng if this is a DIY job, or something that a licensed installer has to do?

This is something we are planing on getting done this year and the work is notifiable as a HETAS cert is required. It is not as simple as just fit a woodburner and use a flue to the outside as we have found out.

A big issue will be with combustable materials, there are minimum distances to be met and a plasterboard wall with wood uprights and noggins is not classed as non combustable. You cannot just replace the plasterboard with cement board because you still have the wood behind and this is not allowed. We initially were puting it on an end wall which is brick and with a cavity but the plasterboard on the inside behing the woodburner has to go.

So getting some quotes from installers is your best option as they have the experience and know what to use.

For me I found the topic of Pyrolysis - Wikipedia interesting and it explains why combustable materials that are shielded from direct heat are a problem.

 

[Parsnip]

We have just had a woodburning cooker installed by a HETAS registered builder. No fuss, no involvement of the local "authority" and job completed in one day, certificate issued together with C.o detector installed. Internal flue, twin wall flue through loft and roof, required steel plates and cowl. Cost £1750 including materials and labour. (Excluding the burner of course)
Worth it rather than DIY for all the reasons especially house insurance, regs./HETAS certification and considering the clampdown on woodburning that is going on.

 

[Sapper]

We’ve just had one installed by a local Hetas firm. The flue goes straight up through a bedroom, attic and roof. I’m just now in the process of constructing a false fire breast in the lounge and bedroom.
So far alls looking good.

 

[Richard_C]

It's one of those jobs you could probably do yourself after reading the regulations, but one day you or your heirs will want to sell the house. Pre sale enquiries and all that. A few £££ on a proper approved installer now might save you much faff in x years time.

(I read a report a few years back about a house owner with a DIY external single skin flue screwed to a fascia board at the top of what soon became his former home.)

The anti Woodburner bandwagon is moving at pace, with some questionable conclusions from questionable data. Nevertheless the "something must be done" reaction might make it harder to install stoves and maybe harder to buy logs in future. If you are buying new maybe think about multi fuel so you could burn smokeless 'coal' if you had to, or maybe ask yourself if it's a wise investment.

 

[Jacob]

You'd be much better off with an internal flue of plain cast iron pipe, up to the point where it has to pass through floors etc and be insulated. You can get a massive amount of heat from the pipe itself.

 

[Spectric]

You'd be much better off with an internal flue of plain cast iron pipe, up to the point where it has to pass through floors etc

Using a length of stove pipe makes sense, why would you want twin wall pipe directly to the burner because the idea of twin wall is to not radiate heat which is what you really want. Those little fans are also supposed to be good.

It might be due to clearances if you have combustable material because you can have much less clearance with twin wall than stove pipe.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You'd be much better off with an internal flue of plain cast iron pipe, up to the point where it has to pass through floors etc and be insulated. You can get a massive amount of heat from the pipe itself.

I suspect it's a pretty standard way of fitting them.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And yes, I know the plate's not square - my boy fitted and he wasn't very practical. needs must.
Here's the duct through which an in line fan takes the excess heat to the bedroom and the kitchen.

 

[Pedronicus]

And yes, I know the plate's not square - my boy fitted and he wasn't very practical. needs must.
Here's the duct through which an in line fan takes the excess heat to the bedroom and the kitchen.

That's novel. So any accidental leakage of PoCs or CO from the stove have a easy route to get to the bedroom! Mmmm...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The alarms would wake me first.

 

[bloke_down_the_pub]

Thanks all, these are some really helpful suggestions.

First off, I might try a local stove firm - see what sort of price an suggestions they come up with. If it's not ridiculous, then I definitley like the peace of mind option of deferring responsibility for legality.

I definitely take your point about the anti-woodburner movement. My current stove is a dual fuel jobby, although it has been fed 100% wood so far. I would ge the same again.

Where's this all heading I ask myself? Will it soon be illegal to light a bonfire? And what about candles, scented or otherwise? Where will it all end?!?!?

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Bob008]

We have just had a woodburning cooker installed by a HETAS registered builder. No fuss, no involvement of the local "authority" and job completed in one day, certificate issued together with C.o detector installed. Internal flue, twin wall flue through loft and roof, required steel plates and cowl. Cost £1750 including materials and labour. (Excluding the burner of course)
Worth it rather than DIY for all the reasons especially house insurance, regs./HETAS certification and considering the clampdown on woodburning that is going on.

Don’t box it in ! I’ve installed a 150mm extractor fan in the room and exited it into my bedroom ceiling with just 10 minutes running my bedroom is really warm, I’m even toying with the idea of a remote switch so I can control it from my bed