Any floor tiling experts? How do I tile over these?

[JakeS]

We've been redecorating recently and figured that it was a good opportunity to tile our downstairs halls, which we've been looking forward to for a while. So we lifted a bit of carpet to check the existing floor, measured everything, worked out what we'd need and went and bought a load of tiles and adhesive and grout and tools and everything...

... and when we got the rest of the carpet off, we discovered these two unexpected features.

Firstly, there's a large (~320mm) concrete cover set into a rebate in the floor. Lifting out the cover, we get access to this:

which drops down probably 700mm or so through ~260mm diameter pipe and appears to have a plastic pipe Y-section at the bottom?

If I had to guess, I'd expect it has something to do with water - either mains access or sewer. I didn't know it was there previously and have little idea why I'd need access to it, but I'm presuming I should keep it accessible just in case. I'm guessing I need some kind of frame that I can mount over the hole and tile up to the edge of, with a matching cover frame that I can tile the inside of to match, but I have no idea what to look for or where to buy it from! Does anyone have any idea of what such a thing is called and where best to get it, presuming that is in fact the right approach? Is it the kind of thing I'll be able to get in a Wickes or a Screwfix?


The second one is more of a mystery to me:

It's a small vertical pipe that reminds me of drainpipe, sunk into the floor (I don't see anything in it, but it's narrow enough and close enough to the wall to be difficult to see down) that had a plastic push-fit cover stuck in it.

Now, as best as we can tell this hall is an extension to the original house - it runs between what probably used to be the front door and a cupboard that was probably an external metre/bin cupboard in a previous life, so these two were probably outside originally. So my guess would be that the second one is a soakaway for the gutter drainpipe, and it wouldn't be a problem to cover it up with tiles... but I'm still not sure!

 

[Beau]

Think you need something like this http://www.buildingdesignindex.co.uk/en ... ole-cover/

Had to fit one in our hallway

 

[JakeS]

Think you need something like this http://www.buildingdesignindex.co.uk/en ... ole-cover/

That does look like the kind of thing I'm imagining! "Manhole cover" sounds a bit grandiose for a thirty centimetre opening, though - do you know if there's a more generic name? We found a couple on the sites of various builder's merchants with "access cover", but all in PP or something equally not-going-to-be-accepted-for-indoor-use...

Are these off-the-shelf items, or order only?

 

[Beau]

Not sure what other sizes are available. It was some years back but think it was off the shelf in the builders merchants. For the link I just googled tileable manhole cover in images.

 

[blackrodd]

If that last grey pipe is dropping into a live system, then you ought to dig down a smidge and cap it with either a glue in stop end, or dig further down, making room for a screw on one,like this and tile over and no risk of flooding!
Regards Rodders

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=4%22g ... y+stop+end

 

[JakeS]

If that last grey pipe is dropping into a live system, then you ought to dig down a smidge and cap it with either a glue in stop end, or dig further down, making room for a screw on one,like this and tile over and no risk of flooding!
Regards Rodders

I don't know whether it's dropping into a live system, but it's not a 4" pipe! It's more the diameter of gutter drainpipe.

How does one dig into concrete anyway? We may end up having to for the other hole, as all the access covers I've seen looking around online require a larger recessed area than the 320x320mm that we have. I'd kind of assumed it would be a standard part!

 

[RobinBHM]

I guess you need a sealed manhole or inspection chamber, with tray that can be tiled.

this is an expensive one, but there are others on the market.

http://recessedmanholecovers.co.uk/inde ... frame.html


I would suggest having a look around outside your house and working out the foul drainage runs. Since you mention there is a Y at the bottom, I expect this is a rodding point. Foul drainage cannot have hidden junctions or bends underground (building control may allow a slight 15 degree sweeping bend) without some access. Before the extension was built there may have been an inspection chamber at this point, so the builder raised up the riser and fitted a sealed cover. Generally these should only be a last resort option, it is always best to re-route the drain run with all access outside. Its important to know whether the foul run is serving only your property or others too!

If this cover is close to the front door, maybe you could grind out a mat well?

I dont know the reason for the other pipe. It is unlikely to be surface water since it is easy to create a new run when building an extension. If it is near a cloakroom or kitchen I would have said it might connect to the foul and was fitted during the build to allow for a sink waste to be connected in the future. If it is open to the foul, you might tell by the smell and gurgling!

Could it be a future proofing duct for cabling, that was never used? Maybe you could rod it and see if it goes anywhere.

 

[griggs]

With the first picture, I would assume it is a rodding eye for your drains, you need to keep access to this. What size tiles are you using?

 

[JakeS]

If this cover is close to the front door, maybe you could grind out a mat well?

It is in fact pretty close to the front door. This is actually a great idea - not only does it leave the access thingy accessible, but it solves a couple of other problems at the same time - the area immediately under the front door would have been a little awkward to tile, and we're also both annoyed at the entrance mat sliding around... it's pretty tempting. Cheers!

As I understand it, we'd have to:

- Cut a space for the well out from the tiles as we laid them
- Lay a bit of metal edging to lip the last tiles at the sides of the mat
- Silicone the bottom of the edging to the floor to prevent water getting under the tiles
- Cut a bit of mat to the right size and drop it into (carpet tape it into?) the hole

does that sound right?

If it is near a cloakroom or kitchen I would have said it might connect to the foul and was fitted during the build to allow for a sink waste to be connected in the future.

Hmm... it is just behind the downstairs toilet, but that has a sink in it already - it runs into the main soil pipe from upstairs, which comes down the corner of the toilet. No gurgling or smell that I noticed while I was trying to work out what it was earlier, but I didn't conduct extensive tests.

If it was there for cabling the previous occupants obviously didn't know, there's about three kilometres of cables stapled to the outside of the house! I sometimes wonder whether they form a Faraday cage and that's why my mobile reception is so rubbish. Seriously, though, it seems unlikely that it could be for any kind of future expansion - this is a 1982 corporate-builder job, everything was put together in the cheapest and easiest way possible.

What size tiles are you using?

450x450mm - and that's not changing, it was hard enough to find tiles we both liked as it is!

 

[Distinterior]

Jake,

I regularly fit these doormats http://www.quick-step.co.uk/en-GB/Conte ... -finishing

They are designed and made for Laminate flooring, but I have used them with a tiled floor on the odd occasion.
It would save you a lot of hassle as its available "Off The Shelf", so to speak.

Tim.

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

Reckon the second one is made up hockey stick arrangement for cable or pipe entry that didn't get used.

 

[whiskywill]

These do them for tiles or vinyl floor covering inserts. http://www.arcova.co.uk/

 

[JakeS]

mat well?

This was the option we went for, in the end - thanks for the suggestion! A bit of aluminium edging and some drop-in coir matting, and it turned out all right!

Now we can finally finish the painting and reattach the skirting boards. When we started this project it was just going to be repainting the inner hallway...

 

[blackrodd]

Very nice job, tiles, angle and mat, You got that to tie in a treat!
Regards Rodders

 

[Beau]

Yes very smart. Wish I had done a sunken matt in our hallway.