Any cider makers out there?

[Kalimna]

Greetings folks,
I wonder if anyone who has made cider before could offer some advice on home brewing it? I've found a few local trees that (so far) have provided around 4 litres delicious (though quite tart and tannic) juice. I reckon I could get at least the same again, and i wondered about making some cider, but haven't found a particularly good guide via google.
I have no idea what the varieties are, one I suspect is a wild cross and has a more appley taste that's similar to golden delicious, one has cox-like flavour and the others are a red fleshed variety too tart to eat easily. All are in fairly built up areas, but I reckon at least the red and cox may have been originally orchard trees.
So, what recipe should I use? I am familiar with home brew equipment.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Richard T]

Hello Adam

Cider apples are generally of a lower acidity than that of eating or cooking apples and have a higher tannin content.

The cider groups are described thus:

Sweet; For high sugar
Bitter Sweet: High tannin, low acid
Bitter sharp: medium tannin, medium acid
Full sharp: High acid

Eaters and cookers can be used as sharps to liven up a cider made with too many sweets and bitter sweets.
I have a few varieties.
Bitter Sweets: Yarlington Mill Jersey
Brown Snout
Ashford Brown Jersey
Fillbarrel

Bitter sharp: Kingston Black
Breakwell Seedling

Full Sharp: Broxwood Foxwhelp

Taste what you have and try not to get the mix too acidic before fermentation as afterwards, there will be no sugar to take the edge off.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

This link http://www.ciderworkshop.com/howtomake.html seems to set out the basics, and has leads to more detailed information.

(I think Richard T knows a little more about cider-making than he's letting on..... yet....)

 

[Kalimna]

Thanks for the link - I shall check it out.
Richard - I did a quick pH test, and I reckon somewhere between 3.5 and 4.0, though a bit of a guess as I only have strips (BDH lab 4-colour strips) to test with. I also reckon I have a combo of high tannin/acid (the red), sweet, med acid (the cox-type) and sweet (the completely unknown one). What sort of yeast/campden quantities would you use per unit of juice? I expect to collect juice and ferment into a demijohn, using cultured yeast, and for ferment to last around a week. Does this seem about right?
Rough plan :
Extract juice (Magimix juice extractor does a good, but slow job)
Scoop off juice frothy scum
Add campden
Leave 48hrs
Pitch yeast
Airlock on demijohn
Check hydrometer till levels out
Bottle plus leave to mature

I wasn't planning on using nutrient additives or clearing enzymes, but does this, again, sound reasonable?

Many thanks,
Adam

As an aside, I am also part of a newly formed allotment group that has an orchard on site (around sixty trees, 40 of which are heritage apples and pears, the remainder split between plums and cherries). Unfortunately we have only been going a couple of years, and the trees planted as maidens, so no fruit yet....

 

[Richard T]

(I think Richard T knows a little more about cider-making than he's letting on..... yet....)


I might do CC, I might do ...



Mrs. Doyle and myself a few years ago. This picture has gone up before I think.

Adam I think you may indeed have something like a bitter sharp in the red one and the cox - like sounds like an eater. So sharp. Probably best to leave that one out and use a mix of the other two.
Of course if you had the luxury of having enough to make a gallon of each, you could blend after fermentation.

I shouldn't worry too much about measuring ph - tasting the apples will tell you how much acid there is. If there is not enough to make it nice to eat it will probably be a safe bet for cider. You can always add acid but not take it away. It needs a little acid for fermentation to start but not much.

I have been through a long, purist period of leaving it to wild yeast. If I were starting for the first time however I would use wine yeast. The common one. This is what eventually takes over anyway when it wins the battle with about a dozen or so others ... takes about six months :shock:
As long as everything is clean (especially the apples - NO SOIL) you can get away with no sulphite but if you want the peace of mind follow the instructions. I think there were two measures that I read - more for dirty/bruised fruit? Yes, I think 48 hours before casting.
If using a wine yeast it will finish quite quickly so it won't be sitting on the dregs very long while it settles so I should let it go all the way to clear (as it gets ) and bottle it.

I wouldn't worry about getting the frothy scum off - there will all sorts of frothy, scummy fun before it's finished. Lots of the cloudiness will be dead yeast that will sink quickly when the ferment dies down.
You can hygrometer if you like but if it goes as it should you will know when it is finished. I've never used one myself as I don't like the idea of poking things into it when it is vulnerable to contamination. I like to leave it safe under its unbroken layer of Co2 for as long as it needs to do what it does naturally.

Best to leave quite a big gap under the top of the demijohn btw - it will really foam up at the start.

 

[Richard T]

Here's the old place I used to knock around:

http://ukcider.co.uk/wiki/

 

[Kalimna]

Richard - many thanks for the info and link. Im not sure I will have enough apples for a couple of years to build up a press like the your photo, but you never know.
One last question, if I may, I nipped along to our local Lakeland this morning (closest thing to a brew shop within about 50 miles) to get a demijohn and a couple of other items, but they were out of wine yeast. I do have some sachets of ale yeast however (dont remember the specific variety though) - will that work OK do you think?

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Richard T]

I really wouldn't use ale yeast. It's designed to work on malted grain, not fruit juice.

Did the shop say when they expected the wine yeast ?

 

[SurreyHills]

There are a few sellers on eBay that sell suitable yeasts for Cider, not too expensive. Allow 1 Campden tablet per 4.5 litres. Depending on the tannin content (will be low if not using any Cider apples) you may want add some very strong tea to give it some body. The more varieties of apples you can get your hands the better, especially if you can't get any Cider apple varieties.

 

[Kalimna]

Richard - That's what I figured, but I thought I'd ask anyway. It would seem that the Lakeland warehouse is out of wine yeast, so unknown delivery. However, there are plenty of online places to order. Just need to find cheapest postal charge for such a small item!

Andy - Whilst I am not certain, I reckon the red-fleshed apple I have found might be a cider-ish variety, given its mouth-puckering-tannic taste. Having said that, the fruits are a little larger than I expected cider apples to be. As it happens, I do have a cider apple in my garden (Teign Harvey), but it seems to only fruit every second year, and not this one. I have 7 varieties going into the mix now. The three mentioned earlier plus another side-of-the-road-unknown variety and Bramley, Adam's Pearmain (eater) and Bundys Ringwood Red (acidic eater) from my garden. The majority are either the unknowns, or the Bundys. The red apples do make for spectacularly coloured juice though

Cheers,
Adam

 

[SurreyHills]

I do know it seems a waste but it is worth bottling some of the apple juice and pasteurising it. That way you get something to drink, albeit non-alcoholic, whilst waiting for the cider to be ready to drink.

 

[Kalimna]

Already drunk about 3 litres of the stuff - so I dont mind attempting to alcoholise it

Cheers,
Adam

 

[RogerP]

I do know it seems a waste but it is worth bottling some of the apple juice and pasteurising it. That way you get something to drink, albeit non-alcoholic, whilst waiting for the cider to be ready to drink.

Not a waste here as none of us drink and that's what we've done with all our spare non-keeper apples - after giving bucket loads away to friends and neighbours.

I've just got the bramleys now to pick and it it's an old, tall awkward tree to, not looking forward to it and there's many barrow loads up there. At least they keep a good while.

 

[Kalimna]

Roger - I suppose you have tried the spread-out-a-sheet-and-shake-the-tree approach? If the bramley is that awkward, you could always cut it down - I'm sure I could help offload the trunk for you

Adam

 

[RogerP]

Roger - I suppose you have tried the spread-out-a-sheet-and-shake-the-tree approach? If the bramley is that awkward, you could always cut it down - I'm sure I could help offload the trunk for you
Adam

Trouble with that method is the apples bruise and then they won't keep. It hasn't been pruned in recent years and it's just grown and grown but this winter it's going to get a proper haircut!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Adam - you say your tree fruits every other year. From what I remember some varieties are prone to this but it can be mitigated by regular pruning.

 

[Kalimna]

Phil - Yes, I am familiar with the notion of biannual (or is that bi-ennial? I can never remember!) fruiting, but I didnt realise that pruning appropriately can help matters. I am not sure that my pruning is anything other than a little haphazard, and probably outside of ideal climate (formative winter/early spring, tidying up - summer, for apples, and summer for all stone fruit). To be honest, I have a couple of books, but I feel that (much like planing or (eeek) sharpening) having someone show you what to do would be of immeasurable help with exactly where to prune on the tree.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Richard T]

All of my cider apple trees are biannual except for the Foxwhelp.

Cider apples are older - closer to their ancestors - the crabs - that never got very big, lived under the canopy of taller trees and as such flowered and fruited maybe as seldom as every 16 years. Old variety apples are prone to biannualism. I make cider every other year. This year we made crumble.

 

[whiskywill]

Another cidemaking site. http://www.cider.org.uk/content2.htm

 

[whiskywill]

I've just got the bramleys now to pick

How so late? I had to pick all mine because they were falling off the tree in early September.