Grahamshed":1wgtueq5 said:Call me a Philistine if you will but I really do not see the attraction in old hand tools. When we cleared out my fathers house there was a box full of old screwdrivers and 'stuff' , most of which ended up in the bin. Sacrilege to some, I know.
Grahamshed":3k7y3gg8 said:Call me a Philistine if you will but I really do not see the attraction in old hand tools. When we cleared out my fathers house there was a box full of old screwdrivers and 'stuff' , most of which ended up in the bin. Sacrilege to some, I know.
woodbloke":2ofp8bkf said:Grahamshed":2ofp8bkf said:Call me a Philistine if you will but I really do not see the attraction in old hand tools. When we cleared out my fathers house there was a box full of old screwdrivers and 'stuff' , most of which ended up in the bin. Sacrilege to some, I know.
Agreed. As others have said, there was an awful lot of 'tat' made in the olden days as well which hasn't survived...so maybe it's just the better stuff that seems to surface . There's plenty of good stuff made now as well (not so during the 70's etc) which to me is infinitely preferable to something that has to be nursed back to life having resided in a bucket of rust for the last umpteen years. I remain to be convinced that any Western steel (old or new) will surpass the cutting and edge holding qualities of my current Japanese chisels (no longer available) from WH...and I've tried most of them over the years (Old Marples, new AI, Sorby, Two Cherries etc etc) - Rob...Phillistine No. Deux :mrgreen:
And there you have it...agreed. But if you wanted to assemble a basic, decent set of new hand tools (as I had to when starting college in the 70's and the best then was appalling by today's standards) then you certainly don't need a vast amount...way less that a 100. My tools for Shoreditch had to fit into a box around 650 x 150 x 400mm and I managed to fit everything in there + from the supplied tool list. Look also at the hand tools used by the late, great Alan Peters. Granted, he had the use of a fully equipped machine shop, but the actual hand tools he used could roughly be counted on the fingers of both hands (slight exageration there, but you get the drift) Similarly, my 'shop at school when I was a HOD was equipped with older chisels etc which weren't bad, but my subsequent LN A2's later on at home were far preferable...not that I'd go down the A2 route now any more as better steels have surpassed it.Cheshirechappie":3nbvhzvx said:The old tool route is also an excellent way to assemble the basis of a good kit of decent tools without spending a fortune.
Not having a pop at you at all Jim because we agree about more things than we disagree on (if that makes sense) but a decent quality 25mm Japanese chisel, say from CHT will set you back £72.90 which is a lot of wonga...the one's that Matt used to sell were equally as good, but a lot less, I think I paid around £35ish if memory serves and yes, of course you couldn't use them on a building site and equally they're not for opening paint pots. But then again, neither are any of your re-furbed oldies! My tools have been built up over many years and are all meant to be 'users' (apart from some planes ) so that when something better comes along, they may get replaced if the performance is significantly better. The latest steel from LV, the PM-V11 stuff has the initial 'feel good' factor though a recent discussion with a very well known and respected member of this community [-( has cast some doubt on it's viability...we shall have to wait and see - Robjimi43":3gj1cqku said:I rave about the quality of selected old steel because I simply could not afford any of the "middle of the road" makers you mention and my recently honed by Douglas (for fun! :shock: ) I.Sorby paring chisel is more than sharp enough for what I do...cost me less than a couple of burgers and didn't require a mortgage.
The stunningly beautiful hand forged Japanese steel that you love is without doubt superior to most things other than a laser from the planet Krypton but may I ask how much a 1" one of those would set me back? Most of the national debt is my guess...and it would be pipper-all use on a building site. :wink:
I think the point is...you can't generalise. What is a pure gem for some..is perhaps tat for others....and I bet your hand crafted razor sharp Oriental collection can't open paint tins...just too brittle mate!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:
I was referring to the basic kit that the college asked students to supply...most just threw the tools into the toolbox but if they were correctly racked out inside, then there was a lot more room for other stuff, which I over time added, but yes, in most cases tools are acquired over a period of time. In my case it was a long time and I still have a pretty minimalist (apart from the planes ) set of tools which enable me to do the sort of stuff I like making, which is generally smaller cabinets and boxes. All of my hand tools (apart from the planes) are racked out on a bit of board about 6x4' which is not a great deal of space, so I need to be pretty selective about what goes onto the 'Tool Wall'Cheshirechappie":1f7g22x8 said:I take your point about a starter kit, but stand (roughly) by my number of about 100, especially for the amateur in the garage or shed. You can't do much woodwork without needing a cramp or several, for example, and it doesn't take long before you run into the need for a gouge or two, a high-angle smoother, a bowsaw, a couple of rasps...or many another not-often-used-but-invaluable item. Being able to sharpen your own saws is a very valuable skill, but adds another six or seven tools to the list.
So - for the ordinary chap with bills to pay and a family to feed, stretching the budget is essential if he's to equip his shed with enough to enjoy woodworking to a bit better than just DIY standards. Even then, it takes most of us several years to reach the happy point of normally having a tool for the job without resorting to compromises or dodgy wangles.
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