Advice needed on desk design

[cmwatt]

Hi folks,

I'm new to this woodworking lark really, only ever done it at school, but hope to get into now as soon as I get a job (just finished my degree in architecture).

One of the first things I'd like to build is a new desk with lots of storage as my bedroom is a bit crampt at the moment. This is of importance to me as I will be using it all the time due to my type of work (architecture) with the PC and an A1 desktop drawing board.

Here is a few pics of what im proposing at the moment:

As you can see, the idea is that the 2 middle drawer units can be pulled out and set to the sides and part of the top of the desk can drop down a bit to form a 'keyboard shelf'. Also you will notice shelving underneath at the back. I was thinking of using some flush door bolts to hold the 'keyboard shelf' in place, but im not sure if these are suitable/strong enough? Something like these: http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...Accessories/Flush_Bolts/301/Slide_Flush_Bolts

Will they be strong enough? Is there any other alternatives? I might just make the 2 drawer units shorter and make the keyboard shelf fixed but then it'll look funny I think.

I plan to use solid birch/oak from the frame along with veneered boards for the drawers etc.

Thanks,
Craig.

(I know it's probably a bit ambitious seen as I've not really made anything before, but hope to get the proper tools and read up a lot before hand).

 

[cmwatt]

Meant to add, for more and bigger pics you can see them on my flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/colour-blind/

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Interesting design. It does seem a bit complex but I'd guess you could pull it off.

A couple of questions: How much space is there under the top? Will you be able to get in there to clean out the dust that will collect? Will the roll out cases attach to the desk when they are in the out position?

As to the lowering desk top, I wonder if you could arrange it so that the top is lifted/lowered by the insertion/removal of the roll out units.

Will you be able to get the piece into the room around the corner or will you assemble it in place?

 

[cmwatt]

Hi Dave,

The space under the top surface would be easy enough to clean as it's not too deep and could be accessed from more than 1 side when the desk is opened out. It's a 50mm gap.

As for the roll out drawer units, I didn't envisage attaching them to the desk when out, just sitting along side or parhaps moved elsewhere in the room. I would still need occasional access to the PC base unit (putting CDs etc in) so keeping them unattached is probably the best idea.

As for the lowering desk section, not sure what you mean by "arrange it so that the top is lifted/lowered by the insertion/removal of the roll out units". What I was just gonna do was, pull out the drawer units in the middle and put them to the sides, then slide the bolts back on the lowering section of the top desk area, then lower it down by hand and slide the bolts in at each end into the lower area. Either that or make a grove/lap joint to support it. My main concern is the weight of it and man handling it into place, if there was a mechanical way of doing it, that would be better but cant think of one.

For assembly I thought about making in sections/units in the garage, then fixing the sections/units together in my room.

 

[jeffinfrance]

the problem (sorry) i see with the design, is ease of set up and break down.

for a "convertible" desk, as with anything convertible, it must be easy, or it will not be converted.

immediate suggestions would be:

hinge the centre drawer units to just pull open.

access the side units from inside under the desk as well as the front when compacted.

design the top desk unconvertible. maybe have the keyboard and mouse, arm hinged from underneath the top shelf. mounting your screen on the wall may be an idea.

cool idea though. be interested to see this go through design process into manufature.

all depends on your budget!

all the best,

jeff

 

[jasonB]

I wonder if the keyboard tray could be set to pivot at each end. If the pivot point is say 75mm below the top surface and the top is 50mm thick then flipping it over would drop the keyboard level by 100mm, the pivots would take most of the weight and a couple of flush bolts would just keep things in place.

Jason

 

[cmwatt]

the problem (sorry) i see with the design, is ease of set up and break down.

for a "convertible" desk, as with anything convertible, it must be easy, or it will not be converted.

immediate suggestions would be:

hinge the centre drawer units to just pull open.

access the side units from inside under the desk as well as the front when compacted.

design the top desk unconvertible. maybe have the keyboard and mouse, arm hinged from underneath the top shelf. mounting your screen on the wall may be an idea.

cool idea though. be interested to see this go through design process into manufature.

all depends on your budget!

all the best,

jeff

Thanks for your suggestions Jeff. I agree that the set up/break down is perhaps a little clumsy, I could live with it but trying to come up with a better idea when space is limited is a challenge I guess.

Hinging the centre drawers units would be a problem I think. If I hinged them at the outside corners of the centre drawer units then it wouldn't leave much clear space when they're opened out. I thought above pivoting the centre units from the centre of the side units, but this creates its own problems as corners of units would need to be either curved and access to the front of the side units blocked. I'd rather not have to access things from the sides if possible as perhaps in the future I might make other furniture to sit along side the desk in a different house/room etc so there is a flush join.

I thought about having a fixed desk top as will with just a normal pull out keyboard shelf, but there is only a 50mm gap (which I guess I could make bigger, but rather not as the desk is already 800mm high and don't want to loose drawer space).

I also thought about mounting the screen on the wall or moving arm as well, but the stand I have for the monitor is excellent as it is (it rotates to portrait, height adjustable, swivels side to side, pivots up and down etc) so will probably just leave as it is.

Thanks for your ideas though, I did try drawing them out but just ran into different problems that wouldn't work for me. Budget I was thinking of about £300ish or so all in.

I wonder if the keyboard tray could be set to pivot at each end. If the pivot point is say 75mm below the top surface and the top is 50mm thick then flipping it over would drop the keyboard level by 100mm, the pivots would take most of the weight and a couple of flush bolts would just keep things in place.

Jason

Not really sure I understand you Jason. Do you mean splitting the keyboard shelf into 2 sections and hinging them from the sides? I like this idea, I've just had a try at some versions of this but none I'm really happy with yet, but will keep trying. The problem is, I want everything to be flush with out any funny gaps etc when the desk and drawers are all closed up.

I'll let you know if I come up with anything.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I think this is what Jason was trying to describe. Seems like a good and simple idea.

When the desk is closed up, the keyboard tray would be flipped up so it is flush with the top of the desk. I've left out the framing underneath but the key board tray could be locked into place with a stop at the back and some small hidden latches on the underside at the front.

When you are using the desk, the keyboard tray would be flipped down and could be latched into place in that position.

In both illustrations the pivot pins are in the same location relative to the desk top. The total change in height between up and down would be two times the distance from the pin to the top of the keyboard tray (in it's open position plus the thickness of the tray.

A benefit to this is that you could use a different and perhaps more durable material on the tray's face that is exposed when "open".

 

[cmwatt]

Aha! What a great idea! :shock:

Thanks for the idea Jason and the drawings Dave, I think this idea would work best. Big thumbs up guys. Would you suggest making the pivot pins out of metal or is the something that I can buy of the peg/shelf like that... of too have a look.

Thanks guys.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Glad that made it clear. You might find something off the shelf although making them wouldn't be too difficult. You could even make them from thin hardwood or plywood with pieces of dowel for the pins.

 

[cmwatt]

Yeah, wasn't sure if dowel would be up to supporting a 1200x400x40mm shelf. Anyway, updated my model in CAD to show you how I'd probably do it. If dowel is strong enough I'd use that but also thought about getting some aluminium rod or something cut to size?

Craig.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Instead of aluminum, I would use bronze rod and bronze bushings. Eventually you'll get black staining from the aluminum.

I would make the top as a torsion box instead of solid. It'll be lighter and easier to keep flat. Fill it with some foam or fiberglass insulation to deaden the sound.

 

[jasonB]

Thanks for teh sketch Dave, thats just what I had in mind.

Depending on how often you will flip the desk you could get away without bushes but if you want to have them then oilite bushes can be bought off the shelf and use a bit of silver steel rod which is easy enough to cut with a hacksaw.

As Dave says the top could be two layers of 12mm veneered board with some MDF or timber ribs and the space filled with foam. You can get iron on veneer edging 50mm wide to cover the edge or use thin solid wood. I use this method quite often for floating shelves, this shows the two 12mm veneered boards with strips of scrap MR MDF Filling and the same thing from the front

Jason

 

[cmwatt]

Hmm I see what your saying about using a torsion box design, which would be lighter and cheaper, however I designed it so that the carcasses of the drawer units and the desk top are 40mm thick solid wood. If I used 12mm veneered boards to create a torsion box then there's only a 16mm gap in the middle? Would I not just be better of with solid wood? I also don't like boards with thin veneers which are easily damaged and the edging eventaully damaged/broken off. I'd rather have something made from quality wood and built to last for ages.

If I get it built, it would be used quite a bit so I'll probably get some bushes to make sure it's durable.

Thanks,
Craig.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

A torsion box would be easier to make flat and it would be easier to keep flat. That seems like an important component of your design anyway. I would make both the desk top and the tray as torsion boxes. The top is large enough that I think you'll find seasonal movement of the wood is significant. That won't be a problem with torsion boxes, though.

 

[jasonB]

I plan to use solid birch/oak from the frame along with veneered boards for the drawers etc.

There is certainly nothing to stop you from using solid wood for the top and carcases. Though I would suggest 40mm for the top the carcases may be better (finantially)done with 19mm (planed from 25mm) boards with whats known as a face frame, this is a piece of 19x40 fitted to the carcase edge to make the front look 40mm thick so in section the carcase will have a "L" profile.

I would strongly advise not to use veneered board for your draw boxes, they are best done from solid say 12mm finish thickness with teh bases done using veneered board. This will give a far stronger draw box. You could also us eveneered board for the carcase backs.

Jason

 

[sirjj]

for the two drawer units u could have them mounted on rails similar to draws and when they are fully pulled out they could have some kind of hinge at the rear corners that forces them to turn out.

edit: where wil the chair go whene not in use?