Advice - Built in cupboards

[Sagly]

Hi everyone,

I've been nosing around here for a while and have been inspired to have a go at making my own built-in cupboards either side of my fireplace. It'll be the first 'big' woodworking project that I have attempted so i'm after a bit of advice.

I want to create something similar to this:

In these alcoves:

Would I be better off building a frame or a kitchen unit style unit? Any advice would be VERY MUCH appreciated!

 

[joiner_sim]

Welcome to the forum!

The style of unit is really down to how nice a finish you would like. A kitchen unit style in my opinion will look the most professional when finished, but will probably also cost the most. A wooden frame type construction can be done fairly easily, but certainly wont be finished off as nice. I built some wardrobes using a "frame" type construction, which you can see on the projects section of my website.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Sagly,

Welcome aboard.

I'm not sure what you mean by kitchen-style. Do you mean stand-alone cupboards on a levelled base? Which would be fine.

Now, I don't do this for a living, but:

If you decide to build-in, it's a help if you ensure the alcoves are made plumb first.
If building in a wardrobe for instance, I would line the alcove with ply or at least MDF, on 'grid pattern' grounds. Then you have only one spell of drilling walls. The rest of the construction is easily screwed to the lining work, as long as you know where your grounds are, or the lining is thick enough to take screws. (Depends on how massive the cupboard construction is going to be.)

Depending on the width of the alcoves, I would also buy some bookcase strip and supports, so you can make the shelves adjustable. If you put solid wooden uprights at the side, this strip can be set flush in routed grooves. If the alcove is much wider than 30 ins (750mm) then to minimise sag, use solid wood at least 25mm thick and fix the shelves to height on end bearers, with a batten beneath the rear edge.

I like the featured design overall, and it would exactly fit my living room. The main problem is SWIMBO. She just will NOT counsel a move round of furniture, so most of the work would be hidden by the end of the sofa!

Hope my 'techie' contribution is of help. If it's not, there will be someone along to correct me I am sure.

Regards


John

 

[Lardman]

There have been some excellent alcove projects posted, mainly from MDF for the bedroom but the principle is the same have a search for "alcove"

I attempted a similar project a few weeks back (its still in pieces in the spare room after my epic failure). IMHO you'll do much better building a carcase for the cupboard than you would trying to fit it into the alcove on it own. Have you checked the measurements of the alcove - mine was all over the place, it wasn't square or parallel and the walls were the best part 2inches off vertical I spent ages trying to fit thing and it still looked a complete pile of pineapple.

 

[jasonB]

I would build an open topped & fronted box a bit like a kitchen carcase that is say 25mm smaller each side of your alcove. This can then be leveled either on adj feet or simple packed up frame. Then add a skirting and side fillers scribed to the wall & floor. Next scribe the countertop to teh 3 walls and then fit to the top of the carcase, finally add your doors.

J

 

[Benchwayze]

I would build an open topped & fronted box a bit like a kitchen carcase that is say 25mm smaller each side of your alcove. This can then be leveled either on adj feet or simple packed up frame. Then add a skirting and side fillers scribed to the wall & floor. Next scribe the countertop to teh 3 walls and then fit to the top of the carcase, finally add your doors.

J

Yup, that would work too. In my case it might lose me 50mm of valuable space. Good plan though Jason.
John

 

[Sagly]

Well, here's an update:

I searched for 'alcove' on this forum and found a REALLY useful post by BradNaylor https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post345489.html?hilit=scribing skirting#p345489

......so useful in fact that I have completely plagiarised it!

So here is what i've got after a Sunday morning trip to B & Q and an afternoon of butchery in my front room (her indoors is not happy about the sawdust in the new gas fire!)

 

[Sagly]

so now i've ordered som kitchen unit legs from ebay so I can get rid of the lumps of wood it's stood on and some more screws for my pocket hole jig (which I used to make the doors):

I love that little thing! I got it off ebay last week and i've been walking round the house trying to find other places to use it!

My alcoves are quite square except the one i'm working on is wider at the back than the front. This hasn't been a problem until now but when I come to fit the top (which will be the most expensive bit) I will be a bit stuck. Any ideas?

Thanks for all the replies by the way, it's all very helpful indeed!

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Sagly,

If you use a pocket-hole jig, you might find the two links useful, esp for cupboards. You might already know about these videos, but in case you don't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYdCv5R786c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpwNCZGQLY

I think it's an ideal system for beginners, and also for cabinets in workshops and sheds etc.. But it gets expensive buying the screws. The alternative is a pan-head or round-head screw (Varying sizes) with a coarse thread. Also, if you wish, buy some small washers to use under the heads. They don't have to be square-drive screws. A good cross-head drive is just as effective. What's most important with the pocket screw is not to over-drive them, thus stripping the wood and reducing the holding power.

I hope you'll persevere and learn to make joints though! (For the nicer bits of furniture.) :wink:

Regards
John

 

[Sagly]

John,

Those are very useful videos, thanks. Thanks for the advice on the screws as well, I just paid the best part of £15 Iincluding postage) for 500 screws and I only need another 24. 30 if you allow for droping a few through the gaps in the floorboards!

When I did a little test of the pocket hole screws I found out that they drag the second peice of wood up and displace the joint, due to the angle of the screw. It behaved itself when I put a clamp across the joint though.

I would love to do a better job of it all but I'm seriously lacking tools. I think a bench saw will be going on my Christmas list! A jig saw is next on the shopping list though, so that I can cut a hole for the electric sockets behind the cupboards.

 

[jasonB]

Hope you ordered the short kitchen legs as it looks like you don't need much more than 100mm, I use the "bigfoot" ones that come in various nominal lengths when I do them with legs. Ironmongery Direct now do them. and also Woodfit.

Regarding the top, use some card or hardboard as a template to get the fit right, then you should be able to get the top in by lowering one end in first and letting it pivot down, you may need to angle cut the lower edge so it does not jam on teh diagonals.

J

 

[Sagly]

Regarding the top, use some card or hardboard as a template to get the fit right, then you should be able to get the top in by lowering one end in first and letting it pivot down, you may need to angle cut the lower edge so it does not jam on teh diagonals.

Of course, sounds so obvious!

Thanks.

I think I might get the oak top made up to match the fire surround. It's a bit beyond my abilities to biscuit it all together. Anyway, I won't get carried away with that until the units are fininshed!

 

[Benchwayze]

Sagly,

You're welcome.

I shouldn't worry about having too many Kreg type screws! Although, I bought just enough to see me through a few face frames and doors, in the shop. (with a few left over too!) In future though I'll buy something suitable from Screwfix, or a similar outlet, for a lot less cash!

I don't want to sound as if I am extolling Kreg (or any other P/hole jig come to that ) but there are loads of jobs for them in all kinds of woodworking. It all depends on what you want to make, and what the item is for.

You do need some kind of flat surface though especially for making square frames. You can use the Kreg clamps, but a decent sized 'G' clamp will serve just as well!.

All the best.
John

 

[BradNaylor]

I searched for 'alcove' on this forum and found a REALLY useful post by BradNaylor

......so useful in fact that I have completely plagiarised it!

Glad to be of help!

Brad

 

[Sagly]

Thanks again for all the helpful comments!

Well, the kitchen legs and pocket hole screws turned up on Thursday so I got a bit more done today but not as much as I wanted to do - ho hum.

I've got a few more questions. Can I use these hinges on the doors? http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...Hinges/122/Blum_CLIP_on_Cabinet_Hinges/425860
They are inset hinges. The outside edge of my doors are in line with the inside edge of the cabinet sides.

Also, I want oak tops on the alcoves to match the top of the fireplace. Would a local independent timber merchants be my best port of call?

 

[Alex]

Ikea do solid oak worktops at good price in short lengths.

 

[jasonB]

Those hinges will be fine provided the side strips don't overhang the carcase.

You may not get an ideal match using kitchen worktops, they are usually made up from short narrow staves (strips) and also likely to be european oak which may not match your fire surround, bit hard to see the exact colour/grain in the photos.

Stick a rough location into your profile then people may be able to suggest local suppliers.

J

 

[Sagly]

No progress today

I'm after something as similar as I can get to the fire surround so worktops (although a good suggestion) wouldn't really give me what i'm after.

I'll get in touch with the suppliers of the fire surround and see if they can provide some tops made up. (If anyone's after a fire surround it looks like they've got some specials offers...http://www.oakfiresurrounds.co.uk/)

I'd like to get an idea of what's a reasonable price though. The oak looks pretty pale and has been stained with Danish oil. Incidentally, how often do I need to re-oil it?

Glyn

 

[Sagly]

I thought I would put up a picture of my (almost) finished cupboards. Just waiting for the oak tops to arrive. I'm pretty pleased with them although if I was making any more I would get myself a bench saw and router table!

 

[billybuntus]

Job well done, looks nice and clean.