CONGER
Established Member
Can anyone cast light on the use of the word 'Bismark' to describe a plane... probably a scrub plane?
rgrds, g.
rgrds, g.
A 'Bismarck' plane?
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Philly
Established Member
G
Bismarck usually means a plane with a front horn, the Continental style.
here's an example....
Hope this helps
Philly
Bismarck usually means a plane with a front horn, the Continental style.
here's an example....
Hope this helps
Philly
ac445ab
Established Member
Hi,
I found this definition in an old book:
"The plane know as a Bismarck (or Bismark) is for making really thick shavings. Bismarck planes are about 9 1/2 in. long and have a 1 1/4 in. single iron."
Ciao,
Giuliano
I found this definition in an old book:
"The plane know as a Bismarck (or Bismark) is for making really thick shavings. Bismarck planes are about 9 1/2 in. long and have a 1 1/4 in. single iron."
Ciao,
Giuliano
Smudger
Established Member
Yes, a scrub plane, I've got one. Works a treat if you want to get sweaty.
engineer one
Established Member
not having tried one, i wonder why you say the ece method of adjustment is pants???
seems easier than tapping with a hammer :roll:
paul :wink:
seems easier than tapping with a hammer :roll:
paul :wink:
No way! I refer to it as an 'obstacle course', largely because that's what it reminds me of when you have to remove the blade. With a 'normal' woodie you tap the back, remove the wedge and then remove the blade. I simply can't begin to write the instructions for the ECE, probably requires a 2,000 word essay. Sorry but sometimes, actually most times, simple is better.
engineer one
Established Member
so i guess you really like it them :? :twisted: :roll:
paul :wink:
paul :wink:
Actually. . . . .no. I can't really fault the actual plane bodies and their horn handles are very ergonomic but the blade mechanism? you have to ask the obvious question: what exactly was the problem they were trying to fix? As far as I know a simple wedge and a thickish blade is all one really needs.
Even their little block plane had a huge mouth that was more suited to being a scrub plane. I had to shim the bed with a 1.5mm veneer to obtain a tight mouth. That's the thickness of veneer you would use on an old woodie with 30 years of regular use.
I even think the lignum is unnecessary, people thought that it was such a great feature but pretty much any of the traditional woods like Beech or Hornbeam are perfectly adequate in use.
That's my limited experience of the ECE's. Their simpler models with wedges might be better but I haven't seen one of those close up.
Even their little block plane had a huge mouth that was more suited to being a scrub plane. I had to shim the bed with a 1.5mm veneer to obtain a tight mouth. That's the thickness of veneer you would use on an old woodie with 30 years of regular use.
I even think the lignum is unnecessary, people thought that it was such a great feature but pretty much any of the traditional woods like Beech or Hornbeam are perfectly adequate in use.
That's my limited experience of the ECE's. Their simpler models with wedges might be better but I haven't seen one of those close up.
rapsod
Established Member
I have 2 plane of this type. This are is the most comfortable planes but only if thay have "neck" behind blade.
woodbloke
Established Member
I've got one of these...this is my Ulmia smoother with a lignum sole that I got in June and spent a bit of time refurbing. Its very comfortable to use, no adjustment for the blade but the cutter is held in place with a cap iron and screw, adjustable mouth as well:
Interestingly, I recently saw a whole box full of the type of planes in the OP in second hand shop in Lucern....should have brought a few back - Rob
Interestingly, I recently saw a whole box full of the type of planes in the OP in second hand shop in Lucern....should have brought a few back - Rob
CONGER
Established Member
Thanks to all for the responses.
Can anyone suggest why the 'scrub plane' ('Schrupphobel') was called 'a Bismarck'... presumably after Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck-Schönhausen -- the first german primeminister (Reichskanzler des Deutschen Reiches)? This would be very interesting to know!
From the responses, it appears that the english carpenters (a daringly wide generalisation!) of the pre Stanley / pre metal planes era did not have scrub planes. Is this true? If so, then what was used the cabinet maker?
rgrds, g.
Can anyone suggest why the 'scrub plane' ('Schrupphobel') was called 'a Bismarck'... presumably after Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck-Schönhausen -- the first german primeminister (Reichskanzler des Deutschen Reiches)? This would be very interesting to know!
From the responses, it appears that the english carpenters (a daringly wide generalisation!) of the pre Stanley / pre metal planes era did not have scrub planes. Is this true? If so, then what was used the cabinet maker?
rgrds, g.
engineer one
Established Member
don't forget that Bismarck was actually the first first minister after the reorganisation of the germanic states into one single country under mainly prussian rule.
prior to the napoleonic ward, most of the germany principalities, and states had been part of the holy roman empire, but still with individual rulers.
for instance princ albert, who married queen victoria came from saxe coburg, which was a minor principality. whilst he, victoria's predecessors came from Hanover.
it would seem logical that many things were re named to celebrate the unification.
paul :wink:
prior to the napoleonic ward, most of the germany principalities, and states had been part of the holy roman empire, but still with individual rulers.
for instance princ albert, who married queen victoria came from saxe coburg, which was a minor principality. whilst he, victoria's predecessors came from Hanover.
it would seem logical that many things were re named to celebrate the unification.
paul :wink:
Paul Chapman
Established Member
CONGER":3u7o7o7b said:
I think they did have what were, in effect, scrub planes but they called them Jack planes. The only real difference between a normal plane and a scrub is the amount of curvature on the blade and, possibly the width of the mouth.
Cheers :wink:
Paul
pam niedermayer
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The width of the scrub is very much narrower than that of "normal" bench planes.
Pam
Pam
CONGER":wfov0x0q said:
Chris Schwarz has some interesting and to my mind probably correct thoughts on that topic ...
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/PermaLink,guid,65f7f4c7-d5f7-488e-98c5-ff2e55d05ba4.aspx
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/scrubPlanes/scrubPlanes1.asp
Cheers Mike
CONGER
Established Member
Paul... from my understanding (and experience), the 'Jack' (correctly ground) did / does not have the curved blade that the scrub ('Schrupphobel') plane has.
I doubt that the 'english' carpenter / cabinetmaker 'hogged' down rough sawn planks with a jack-plane? If he did, then he was pretty fit!
I know that the shipwright used an adze / small axe / hatchet for this purpose... but what did the carpenter / cabinetmaker use?
-ger-
I doubt that the 'english' carpenter / cabinetmaker 'hogged' down rough sawn planks with a jack-plane? If he did, then he was pretty fit!
I know that the shipwright used an adze / small axe / hatchet for this purpose... but what did the carpenter / cabinetmaker use?
-ger-
As Paul C says they would have used a jack or fore plane most likely. My fore plane which is an 18 inch woodie has a curved blade in, the only other curved blade I have is in the wee bismark in the pics at the top of the thread. I use these two planes for hogging down rough sawn planks> I would expect that in the cabinet shop of old this may well have been a job which fell to the apprentice who , considering the apprentice was likely in his teens, was probably quite fit.
Cheers Mike
Cheers Mike
woodbloke
Established Member
My understanding is that the 18" woodie with a 2"cambered blade would have been used to prepare rough boards to size and a scrub plane was used to clean up timber was very dirty, or had a previous finish applied. In use the very deeply cambered blade removing a thick but narrow shaving would then leave a clean surface for the wooden jack to do the initial preparation, without fear that the edge would be dulled too quickly by any ingrained dirt in the surface - Rob
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