5 1/2 Jack and Low Angle Jack Planes

[Nikolaj33]

Hi,

I bought a Stanley 5 1/2 plane from eBay. I am not sure how honest this seller was. Firstly, the tote is broken, which wasn't made clear in description. This morning the seller even claimed that it wasn't broken when it was sent even though on close inspection of a photo a line can be seen which matches the breakage.

I measured the angle of the iron bevel and it is ground at 20 degrees. I am a newby so I would like to know, if this was ever done on 5 1/2 planes? I have heard of low angle jack planes. Is it possible that an iron from low angle jack plane was put instead? Would this even be possible, I mean are irons interchangeable between these two planes?

I guess my main concern is that it was put together from different planes' parts. One is obvious, the cap iron is quite obviously a lot more recent than the sole which is a 1931/32 model. The plane was advertised as unrestored, the seller's grandfather's, but it doesn't seem like this is the case. I may be even a bit paranoid but it seems like the seller sprinkled some rust powder on top, because the rusting is very loose and there is a layer of oil underneath.

I suppose my main question is about this 20 degree iron. Should I bite the bullet and try to make this one work or should I open a dispute? I am hoping that those of you with greater experience in dealing with old planes and eBay will point me to the right direction. Maybe you might suggest something else I should look into.

Thanks.

 

[ED65]

Sorry to hear about the break. In possible defence of the seller, if they aren't a tool guy they might not have realised there was a break as they don't know what to look for. And it is possible the screw can hold the handle together so tightly that you wouldn't immediately be able to feel it.

Anyway regardless, these breaks are generally easily, and permanently, glued back together. If using epoxy you don't need to worry about lots of clamping pressure, but if you're using PVA or foaming polyurethane you might want to rig up a simple clamping jig so that you don't have to fumble about with a couple of clamps or multiple winds of electrical tape!

I have heard of low angle jack planes. Is it possible that an iron from low angle jack plane was put instead?

The "low angle" in a plane's name refers to the angle the iron is bedded at, not the angle of the bevel.

Bevels are routinely ground by their users and there's no reason that a 20° wouldn't be picked, or accidentally created, instead of the customary 25°. The honing angle (the angle you will eventually sharpen at) is pretty much all that matters at the end of the day and the 20° primary bevel won't interfere with this.

I guess my main concern is that it was put together from different planes' parts.

This is actually quite common. Sometimes you get what are referred to as Frankenplanes, which are clearly made from disparate parts (surprisingly not always after they left the factory!) but in many cases it's impossible to tell that a plane was made up from bits from multiple planes and later owners will be none the wiser.

...it seems like the seller sprinkled some rust powder on top, because the rusting is very loose and there is a layer of oil underneath.

That does sound a bit dodgy TBH. But if you got a good deal, the plane is intended as a user and works as you want I wouldn't worry about it too much. It is up to you though, if you feel there was a deliberate intent to mislead you could try to make that case with eBay.

 

[custard]

Should I bite the bullet and try to make this one work or should I open a dispute?

Open a dispute.

As a beginner you need a fully functioning plane. There are likely to be all sorts of teething problems that you'll encounter as you learn to use a plane, if there's a question mark over the quality of the plane repair you'll never know if the problem is down to your lack of skill or the plane's repair. Woodworking is difficult enough without that added uncertainty. So, the answer is, return the plane and insist on a refund. Ebay will back you up all the way so it's really a non issue.

 

[thetyreman]

yes I would get the money back, there's plenty of others around, find a good one instead, there's loads of good ones out there.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have to say I admire people's faith in Ebay - we long ago stopped buying on Ebay because of total lack of support and incompetence by both Ebay and PayPal.

 

[woodbloke66]

Should I bite the bullet and try to make this one work or should I open a dispute?

Open a dispute.

As a beginner you need a fully functioning plane. There are likely to be all sorts of teething problems that you'll encounter as you learn to use a plane, if there's a question mark over the quality of the plane repair you'll never know if the problem is down to your lack of skill or the plane's repair. Woodworking is difficult enough without that added uncertainty. So, the answer is, return the plane and insist on a refund. Ebay will back you up all the way so it's really a non issue.

Yep, makes sense. Get your money back and fwiw I would buy a decent user from somebody on this forum who knows their way around a bench plane - Rob

 

[Ttrees]

I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about a broken tote or knob.
The condition which the body is in, is what matters, a wee bloom of rust is no bother and can happen a Lie-Nielsen in a week.
Is the casting nice and thick? that's what I look for.
Once you are getting a few shavings, even with a broken knob you may find yourself wanting another plane anyways for other things,
and can pick up or make one in future.
Good luck
Tom

 

[Nikolaj33]

Firstly, thanks to everyone who responded.

In regards to a few of the comments, there is no way the seller didn't know about it, as it is very obvious the moment you take the tote in your hand. As for eBay, well, I've only been using it for a couple of months and so far I had pretty positive experience. But on this occasion I realised that their rating system may not be the best. For example this particular seller has almost 30 negative feedbacks in a year and still has 98.5 rating. I understand its percentages, but maybe its not a great system, 98.5 would indicate almost perfect, but it's far from it.

As for disputes Custard, I would like to avoid if possible, because, if I am not mistaken, I would still be charged for postage, am I right? I did pay £10 for postage. Apart from the postage I only paid £21.

One other thing about the plane, I really like the was the cutting iron assembly sits on the lateral adjustment lever. It seems so nice and snug, compared to my to the No 4 plane which is from the same period.

I took some of the photos of the planes body. I would appreciate any opinion if the casting is thick enough, or anything else you might notice etc?


Thanks

 

[Trevanion]

As for disputes Custard, I would like to avoid if possible, because, if I am not mistaken, I would still be charged for postage, am I right? I did pay £10 for postage. Apart from the postage I only paid £21.
Thanks

I would say you're fully within your right to have a full refund, this includes postage.

 

[MikeG.]

If I lived closer I'd take this off your hands for what it cost you. My son in law needs a jack plane, and fixing this up could have been a fun joint project.

There are some nice 5-1/2s on Ebay at the moment. If you can afford it I'd suggest buying another one, and hanging on to this one until you are more confident of your skills, then fix the handle and regrind the blade.

 

[StraightOffTheArk]

From seeing the photo's I'd say that it's not a bad price and it looks easy to clean/fix up. If I wanted a 5 1/2 I'd have been happy to buy it. But obviously, I'm not you, and I think as far as a refund goes it's whether or not the photo's and description was misleading that's the crucial factor. If I had thought I was getting a plane with a solid handle that didn't need cleaning I'd have been mildly annoyed to receive this, but I wouldn't have sent it back because that would have been more hassle than sorting out the plane, and when things are used and sold by people who possibly don't know what they're selling, you need to make allowances. But you are not in that position so, it's up to you!

Tara a bit,

SOTA

 

[El Barto]

It looks ok but I'd still either ask for a refund or a partial refund because the item wasn't as described in the listing.

 

[ED65]

The eBay/PayPal side of this put aside, overall that looks in tidy enough condition overall that without rushing it might take you perhaps half an hour, 40 minutes to get into working nick, not including glue drying time which is usually several hours even for 5-min epoxy.

I took some of the photos of the planes body. I would appreciate any opinion if the casting is thick enough, or anything else you might notice etc?

I wouldn't even think about casting thickness normally. Thick/thin, doesn't really matter except if you have a preference either way. Within reason thinner isn't inherently bad, early Stanleys tend to be on the gracile side and many think they're the best of Stanley's long output.

 

[galleywood]

If you go for the refund you might want to consider buying a restored plane from a reutable supplier.
I recently purchased a Record 5 1/2 and a Record 4 from 'Toolique' and I am very pleased with them - I have no connection with the company.
You will however have to pay substantially more.
Search the UKW site for restored planes and see what other comments and recommendations there are.
Good luck.

 

[MikeG.]

.........I wouldn't even think about casting thickness normally. Thick/thin, doesn't really matter .....

It's not just me, then. Part of the conspiracy to add mystique to a simple tool, this "casting thickness" nonsense has puzzled then annoyed me for years. The only way I can see that it makes a difference is if the 27th owner owner over-exuberantly flattens a sole in the same way as the other 26, and ends up wearing a hole through it. Has that ever happened in the history of the world? The stiffness of the body is dictated by the sides much more than the the base. I'd urge any purchaser of a plane to ignore this myth. Check for breakages, bad pitting, sufficient length of usable iron, and the existence of all the necessary parts......and that's probably all.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

....... and hairline cracks around the sides of the mouth. They might come to nothing, but you're better off without them.

 

[Peterm1000]

If the plane arrived with that broken handle and the seller didn't say it had a broken handle, I think you will get a refund. The seller might insist on a return but my experience (15 years and 1500+ feedback) is that if it's a genuine error they probably won't or they may offer you a partial refund. It's clearly a very used plane which you knew when you purchased it and £20 seems a pretty fair price. That looks like an easy repair to me and I think you should expect to have to do some restoration on an old unrestored plane (which includes regrinding the bevel).

 

[lurker]

For what you have got its quite decent for the price.
To my eyes it looks like a straight 1960's-70's plane not a mix of parts.
I think you would struggle to dispute what you have received.

A hours fettling and it should perform as good as a new one in the £100+ bracket.

Shame you are no where near me as I would do it for you

 

[lurker]

As a matter of interest, anyone know the going rate for a decent condition pre war 5 1/2.

I am neither buying nor selling, but from browsing at tool auctions etc I thought the prices were well north of 60 quid.

 

[Vann]

...I guess my main concern is that it was put together from different planes' parts. One is obvious, the cap iron is quite obviously a lot more recent than the sole which is a 1931/32 model. ..

It may be a bitsa but, from the pictures, I don't think it is. What makes you think the sole is 1931-32? It looks like a post WW2 plane to me. Does it say "Made in England"? If so, it wasn't made in 1931-32.

...I measured the angle of the iron bevel and it is ground at 20 degrees. I am a newby so I would like to know, if this was ever done on 5 1/2 planes?...

...I suppose my main question is about this 20 degree iron...

The 20° iron is nothing to worry about. As ED65 says, you'll regrind the iron many times if you get into regular woodworking. Hone a standard 30° micro-bevel on the cutting edge and you'll be fine.

...Should I bite the bullet and try to make this one work or should I open a dispute?...

The broken handle would annoy me, but... Might it have happened in transit? Life's too short - glue it up, hone the cutting iron, and go make some shavings.

My tuppence worth.

Cheers, Vann.