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2"x4" framing

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StevieB

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When building the stud walls for my workshop I butt jointed 2x4s and simply nailed them with 6" nails. I then used coach bolts to attach these frames to each other to form the 4 walls of the shop. I now have to build a deck with a 2x4 frame to support the decking and was contemplating whether to do the same or whether to use proper joist hangers. Given that I would need 120 hangers and they are 80p each I am tending towards using 6" nails again but have a niggling doubt over whether this is a false economy.

Anyone able to comment who has laid a deck before? Is using proper hangers necessary? The deck will not be subject to huge load (no mega parties or anything) just the usual domestic traffic.

Cheers,

Steve.
 

Waka

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Steve

As CYC says, what size deck is it?

Regarding the hangers, I have to say I found them useful when laying deck, but I didn't use as many as you are comtemplating. having said that the 100 pound or so for hangers is cheap in the big scheme of things.

I would most certainly stay away from using nails becuase over time they will rust and if you ever need to do any modifications then getting the nais out will be a b****r.

Lets know how you get on.
 

StevieB

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Thanks for the replies so far! The deck is going to be made up of three parts to fit round a conservatory - the main deck area is 4.6m x 2.8m, and there are then 2 'walkway' areas (for want of a better word) which will be 4.9m x 0.7m and 3.8m x 0.7m. The deck will be sunken below the garden level by about 2 feet (we have a raised garden compared to the house would be a better way to describe it) and butt up to walls on all sides.

Because of space constrictions it is not going to be possible to build a frame off site and lift it into place, it is going to have to be build in situ. I also have a height restriction due to the level of the doors in the house - the conservatory doors open outwards 6" above current ground level. Thus I can only have a 4" bearer below the deck boards which leaves me 1" for the deck board itself and 1" clearance for the outward opening doors. This necessitates a single layer support rather than the more traditional joists on bearers design.

Thus I have to make a lattice with the joists no more than 400mm apart (recommended spacings by the deck supplier) with 4 cross members 600mm apart. 400mm apart on the long axis means 10 joists, with 4 cross members = 60 butt joints. Thats just for the main deck area. Sorry if its not very clear, its easier to visualise than to describe!

Anyhow, redesign at a later stage is not an option - once its down it stays down so getting the nails out again is not necessary, I was just concerned as to whether they would be as strong (or strong enough) when compared to joist hangers.

I have 3 days off work next week to start this, so will try and take some progress pictures as I go along, but suspect it will take more than 3 days to complete so dont hold your breath for the final shots! On the plus side, I have managed to convince SWMBO that Western red cedar will be far nicer than the green tinted ribbed deck boards that are everywhere, so assuming the ship from Canada docks on time I should at least have some nice timber to play with!

cheers,

Steve.
 

tim

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I have recently built a massive deck c 50m2 which was predominantly and unavoidably ground level. I used a combination of joist hangers and nails depending on position. Boringly I don't know how to get a pic to you. Another solution is to trench under where the deck will be and bury concrete posts horizontally to act as bearer beams so that the nails are simply holding the joists to the frame. The other disadvantage with using nails alone in your situation is that from what you have described you will find it awkward to bang the nails in if you have restricted access. I'd go for hangers as much as poss if you can.

Well done for not using ribbed decking. Its only in this country that they use it. When asked why the guys in the yards all say its to stop it getting slippy. So that'll be why wooden decks on boats are smooth then?!! I splashed out on timber too - got a really good deal on Ipe which is fabulous - managed to pull a few strings and got it for the same price as cedar.

Best of luck. 2 weeks i reckon should see you finished and then maybe the deck a couple of weeks after that!. Doesn't half get your back :lol:

T
 

Aragorn

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I don't use hangers or 6" nails for decks, and I've done one or two :oops:
I use 3" rust-proof screws, screwed in at 45º across the endgrain of the joist into the joist-plate (2 or 3 per end). 3x3" posts every 1m set into concrete or post spikes depending on the condition of the soil, with the joist plates bolted onto them.
 

tim

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Stevie,

Hope these images are useful! Sure make my workshop less muddy!










BTW thanks Chris for the use of the image storage - much appreciated. I will try to get some space on my website when its up and running to share for others to use.


T
 

Alf

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He's got a porch! He's got a porch! Oh I'm so jealous. I so wish I had somewhere to sit just outside the w'shop like that. :mrgreen: Very nice, Tim.

Cheers, Alf
 

Chris Knight

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Tim,

That is a great looking shop and as Alf says with a porch too! Now all you need are a few swings and we can all come round and shoot the breeze.

PS you're welcome to the storage for the pics.
 

tim

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Thanks guys -shall I post some more pics under a new thread.

My wife has coveted it from day one - apparently it would be ideal for yoga :shock: Methinks that it woudl be so serene with the planer thicknesser running :twisted:

Porch less useful for sitting under now since it was always designed to be a log store and storage for garden tools and extractor/ compressor etc. But it gets the sun all day and is great for sitting on with beer in hand covered in dust at the end of the day. Actually cider rather than beer given its Herefordshire 8)

The inside is slowly being finshed but its slow and I have to keep making things for other people. Don't they realise I'm only doing this for a living to build a great workshop and fill it with toys :wink:

Cheers

T
 

tx2man

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Not only has Tim got a b***** porch,
He's deliberately highlighted it with fairy lights :x

TX
 

cambournepete

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StevieB":36gnxpod said:
On the plus side, I have managed to convince SWMBO that Western red cedar will be far nicer than the green tinted ribbed deck boards that are everywhere, so assuming the ship from Canada docks on time I should at least have some nice timber to play with!
If it's not a rude question, how much did you end up paying for the cedar ?

I'm going to be building a deck next year and SWMBO would much prefer not to use pressure treated timber as she is worried about the health implications of our (almost) 2 year old playing on it .

Cheers,

Pete
 

Adam

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cambournepete":22o257r3 said:
If it's not a rude question, how much did you end up paying for the cedar ?

I'm going to be building a deck next year and SWMBO would much prefer not to use pressure treated timber as she is worried about the health implications of our (almost) 2 year old playing on it .

Cheers,

Pete
When I was at WL Wests, they had added Cedar to the hardwoods they supply. You could try giving them a call!

Adam
 

StevieB

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Hi, loads of replies, thanks guys. Since the initial post I have had a play with the design and decided to use a mixture of hangers and nails/screws. The 2 by 4 arrived this morning and the cedar arrives Wednesday with a bit of luck.

Pete, the cedar came from a company called 'the deck supply company' who are based in Hillingdon west London and Liverpool. Their website is www.decksupply.co.uk

They do 4 types of cedar decking as well as a couple of other hardwood types - Ipe, Yellow Balau and Tatajuba, although they only had Cedar in the Hillingdon showroom. The 4 types are 90mm and 140mm knotted and 90mm and 140mm knot free. (Both either 25mm or 40mm thick so I guess that makes 8 types?) Prices are on their website but I went for the 90mm knot free which was £3.10 per meter inc vat, £34.12 per square meter. I bought specific lengths though rather than an area since I didnt want joins in my deck.

Cheers,

Steve.
 
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