2 second delay

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Chippygeoff

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My little workshop is my spare bedroom in my bungalow, its about 15ft from the kitchen. In the workshop I have a radio going most of the time as I do in the kitchen but between the two there is a two second delay. When I walk into the kitchen I am hearing what has already been said in the workshop. Can anyone explain why there is this delay. Both are tuned to radio 2.
 
I suspect that the workshop radio is FM and the kitchen one is DAB. DAB radios seem to need time to do all their clever computing. The effect is not so marked on newer models.
 
Maybe they are both DAB and one is slower to turn the digital information into the sound, pretty much as AndyT says, newer ones are likely to be faster
 
DAB: late,
VHF (FM): not quite as bad.

Pretty much all broadcasting now uses digital processing at some point in the chain (I mean downstream of the studio mixer), and delays can be quite significant. It's about seven secs between my PC decoding an internet stream of R4 and the off-air FM radio. For complex encoding schemes like COFDM (DAB) the receiver has a huge amount of work to do, and it's a trade-off between processor power/speed and battery life (power consumption).

Years ago, the BBC used to advance the pips, so that they were "right" for a VHF receiver in the home counties. That was when the only digits were in the BBC's transmitter distribution, and the delay could be measured accurately.

Nowadays, because the worst part of the delay is in the digital receiver, which is variable, they've officially given up trying. The pips are roughly right on VHF, MW and LW, but I don't think there's any guarantee as to which ones arrive at the loudspeaker first.

In the late 1980s it was already becoming a problem. I was involved in a Radio Two live show that went badly pear-shaped: the technical planner had decided the presenters would use small Sony MW receivers feeding their headphones (off-air), as a cheap way of letting them do two-way chats with each other and with London. The show had several locations as far as five miles apart, and complex comms.

The off-air delay was about 1sec (the BBC used Nicam, which it invented, to distribute to the transmitters). Once it went live, the presenters heard themselves coming back into their headphones with that delay. They couldn't speak, let alone chat with someone else (try it sometime!). They ended up listening to the question, then whipping the cans off to reply, then stuffing them back on again for the next question, and so on.

Needless to say, it didn't come over as very polished! But I did get to do over a ton in a police patrol car down the M5 (blues+twos), which was fun...

... happy days.

E.
 
Many thanks guys. The one in the workshop is a bog standard radio/CD player whereas the one on the kitchen is a DAB radio/CD stero set up with seperate speakers. I tend to do all my wood finishing in the kitchen.
 
Eric The Viking":3hhok8hg said:
DAB: late,
VHF (FM): not quite as bad.

..........They couldn't speak, let alone chat with someone else (try it sometime!). They ended up listening to the question, then whipping the cans off to reply, then stuffing them back on again for the next question, and so on.

E.
I do this all the time with amateur radio Using my transceiver and simultaneously connected over the internet to one of the many WebSDRs (Software Defined Receivers) around the world. Here's one http://www.160m.net/ Use them to check my signal strength in various spots of the planet.

You soon get used to the delay. :)
 
Ah! now that has also answered my question too. In my workshop I have a radio set to the same station as my neighbour and his is a couple of seconds behind mine and I did wonder why this was. I now feel enlightened, thank you. :D
 
The exact same effect is produced on our two televisions. The lounge one is about two seconds behind the kitchen one. Kitchen is on standard digital receiver, the lounge is run through the Sky box. Strangely, the office one, although on the same digital aerial as the kitchen is not audibly at the same point, being about half a second behind the kitchen. Probably explained as above with the differing ages of the digital receivers in the tv's.

Phil
 
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