1/8" & 3/16" Mortice Chisels

[custard]

I was hunting around on Ebay recently for a particular kind of chisel, when it struck me just how many 1/8" and 3/16" old mortice chisels were listed. These weren't just sash mortice chisels, but also the heavy duty pig sticker style of mortice chisel, and right down to 1/8".

Does anyone have any idea what this previous generation of craftsmen were using these tools for? I'm a full time furniture maker but I virtually never cut mortices below 1/4", even something like a hanger style drawer divider is still only 1/4", so I'm puzzled why there are so many dedicated 1/8" and 3/16" mortice chisels out there? I wondered if it might be some kind of joinery application?

 

[Woody2Shoes]

When you look at any 1/8" chisel it sort of looks like a mortice chisel - simply because of the constraints on how such things are made, they probably all look similar at that sort of width. I have a very old one (nearer 3/32") which was clearly shop-made by flattening the sides of a wider chisel (of now unknown design) - I assume it was used for inlay, or cleaning out lock mortices on small cabinets etc.

It seems to have taken Ray Iles a while to work out the design:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/stor ... The%20Line

As for uses - Inlay? If you were making an m/t joint in material 3/8" - 5/8" thick, or cleaning up wider mortices perhaps, wouldn't it be handy?

Cheers, W2S

 

[custard]

The thing is Woody, there's no mistaking these chisels! For example take a look at this,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Jame ... :rk:3f:0

And there's no shortage of them, in both 1/8" and 3/16", from lots of different manufactures. I'm a full time cabinet maker, and I virtually never need to make a mortice smaller than 1/4". In the event I ever did, it would be so titchy I'd just use a regular chisel, I wouldn't need a "big gun" like one of these pig stickers.

But other woodworkers clearly did need dedicated mortice chisels in these tiny sizes, but why? I'm guessing it's possibly a joinery application? If so do any of the joiners on the forum have any idea what that application was?

 

[Racers]

Maybe so many exist because they where never used, so never wore out.

Pete

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Smaller mortices do crop up in antique pieces. For example, I have drawings for a reproduction Canterbury (sort of magazine rack on castors, originally intended to hold sheet music), the open slatted sides and dividers in which are of 3/8" mahogany, with 1/8" mortice and tenon joints, including into the 1" square corner posts/legs. I own a folding writing slope made in 1910 (dated on one of the internal drawer bottoms), having the writing surfaces framed up in 1/2" stuff - mortice haunches are 3/16".

Not many people make writing slopes or Canterburys these days, or similar smaller household pieces. Most contemporary fine furniture tends to be based on 1" sawn stock planed to 3/4" or thereabouts (or thicker - except perhaps for drawer linings and bottoms) - hence 1/4" or 5/16" M and T joints.

 

[MikeG.]

Hey..........maybe they're not mortice chisels at all, but parting tools. Just a thought.

 

[custard]

Smaller mortices do crop up in antique pieces.

I get that, but it's still not ringing true as an explanation. I've made plenty of delicate pieces with small components,

But I've never once felt the need for a 1/8" or 3/16" pigsticker or even a sash mortice chisel of such a tiny size.

So I'm still guessing it was some heritage joinery process. But what?

 

[D_W]

I'd bet they'd be useful for cutting frames or something of the like.

I purchased a set of pigstickers two years ago (I&H sorby) and there are two thin ones in it. they've been used a fair amount, but they're not short.

90% of my mortising is 5/16th, though.

I don't think the thinner of the two is 1/8th, I think they're closer to 3/16ths or thereabouts. Thin enough to look at the and not know what to do with them.

 

[custard]

90% of my mortising is 5/16th

+1. and I bet that's true for almost all cabinet makers.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Thinner mortice chisels have been around for a long time. Benjamin Seaton's chest (dating from 1797) contains eight OBM chisels, the narrowest of which are 1/8" and 3/16" nominal; his were made by P. Law.

Plough irons for wooden plough planes also start at 1/8" (usually numbered 1), and run through 3/16" (numbered 2) and so on. I think I'd probably associate such small grooves mainly with bottoms for small drawers, but small, delicate frame-and-panel work would be quite possible with readily available tools in the late 18th and 19th centuries, at least.

I can't imagine manufacturers making a significant number of such chisels (though nowhere near as many as 1/4" and up) unless there was some demand. I agree that a mortice can be sunk without a mortice chisel, but it's hard to see what a mortice chisel might be purchased for other than for morticing as it's primary function.

 

[D_W]

Agree with the sentiment that they must've been used for deep mortises in something, and commonly. There are too many of them around, and many have seen quite a bit of use.

Picture frames was my guess, or mirror frames or something like that, but I'm sure it's likely the wrong guess.

I am 0% woodworking historian, so if someone who has an interest in the older texts has a comment, I'm all ears. It cost far too much as a percentage of daily or weekly pay for craftsmen to have excess unused tools for those to have been there just to "round out the set" or cut shallow mortises for google engineers and actuarial fellows who like to do sash mortising with fence posts.

 

[D_W]

90% of my mortising is 5/16th

+1. and I bet that's true for almost all cabinet makers.

Lovely piece above, by the way!

 

[Trevanion]

I'm not quite sure where you would need an 1/8" chisel in traditional joinery. The only thing I can think of is morticing those really fine glazing bars you had in Victorian sash windows.

I've made quite a few of these 2mm chisels.

They're for removing glue from the draft seal grooves in window and door frames, much better than a sharpened screwdriver! I've managed to sell several to local joiners who seem to like them.

Did you know you can also get a 1/8 (3mm) machine morticer chisel and auger? I imagine they're very fragile.

 

[D_W]

Something like that is wonderful for planemaking, too.

 

[custard]

Did you know you can also get a 1/8 (3mm) machine morticer chisel and auger? I imagine they're very fragile.

Interesting, I did not know that.

I've just checked in the Scott & Sergeant web site and they do indeed have 3mm and 5mm auger & chisel sets for machine morticing! However in the scores of professional furniture making workshops that I've visited or worked in, I can't ever recall seeing a chisel and auger smaller than 1/4" or 6mm.

I can see how your 2mm chisels would be very useful, in fact I've made something similar for inlay and stringing work. But I doubt the pre war craftsmen who were buying these dedicated 1/8" and 3/16" pig stickers would spend money unless there was a more mainstream and regular need for these tools.

At a guess I think you're probably right to think about something like glazing bars, but as I've little practical experience of joinery it's only conjecture.

 

[custard]

Incidentally, here's the Veritas version of very small stringing chisels

https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... l#SID=1757

Most craftsmen I know made their own from bits of old saw plate, scraper blades, or filed down masonry nails.

 

[dzj]

Maybe plane makers might find them useful for chopping narrow wedge mortises, before using floats?
(Small radius hollows and rounds and such...)

 

[Trevanion]

I've just checked in the Scott & Sergeant web site and they do indeed have 3mm and 5mm auger & chisel sets for machine morticing! However in the scores of professional furniture making workshops that I've visited or worked in, I can't ever recall seeing a chisel and auger smaller than 1/4" or 6mm..

The only thing that's stopped me from buying one to just have a look at is that I know for certain that I will never ever find a use for it.

Would be nice to have a look at it though, I have no idea how you could make one so small without it shattering on the first plunge.

 

[rxh]

Further to CC's post above, 1/8" mortice chisels are indeed useful for making Canterburys:

 

[Jacob]

1/8" mortice chisels are for cutting 1/8" mortices. Otherwise known as slots.
It's easy to forget the huge range of stuff which was made of wood and metal combined, from ships, huge silos, railway wagons, down to scientific kit, cameras, clocks, church organs, pianos and other instruments, etc.
No doubt the smaller stuff would need the occasional slot to accommodate a bit of metal - a moving part perhaps, or just a strap of some sort.
That's my guess anyway!
I've tried them out - surprisingly speedy once you get the knack. At a pinch you could cut the two long sides of a letterbox slot in a 2" door, if you really had to and didn't have an alternative.