no4 lapping, should I go any further?

[thetyreman]

I've been lapping my no4, on 100 micron microlapping film, it works amazingly well, but there's still a bit to go,

there's 3 areas where the sole is just slightly lower than the rest of it, I haven't feathered in the edge yet with a ruler, to get to this stage has taken probably 1 hours work,

do you think it's worthwhile getting rid of the remaining low spots? I think it's incredibly close now.

I've attached an image to give you a better idea, didn't take any pictures before I started but it was much worse than it is now trust me.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If the odd low spot affected performance, they wouldn't have manufactured corrugated soled planes.

 

[Ttrees]

I've been lapping my no4, on 100 micron microlapping film, it works amazingly well, but there's still a bit to go,

there's 3 areas where the sole is just slightly lower than the rest of it, I haven't feathered in the edge yet with a ruler, to get to this stage has taken probably 1 hours work,

do you think it's worthwhile getting rid of the remaining low spots? I think it's incredibly close now.
.

I don't know what grit 100 mircon film is, but if its taken an hour that's way too fine
I normally get a few feet of sandpaper, clamp it with a block, and stretch the film around the plate,
keeping it clean by brushing it.
Are you using a surface plate ?. I have a nice four foot(sih) one which is perfect for sandpaper rolls.

If I understand you correctly ....you wish to intentionally dub the edges of the tools sole, by placing the tool on a ruler
so you erase these efforts, that you have been working so hard to create?
Do you see any plane manufacturer do this ....or ever?


I have an old five that I brought to the metal shop to stay
Its narrow so good for ply .... the mouth has some similar marks, because it was spot worked instead of lapped
first ....and I learned a lesson doing so
Any other plane I had, was able to be lapped to get into good shape.
This old Record donor plane was showing some signs of pitting on an area now, upon lapping after spot filing/scraping.
Because, in the beginning, the sole was thicker on one side, than the other.

I dare not to lap it any further!
You don't need to have the sole perfect to use the double iron with effect!

Tom

 

[thetyreman]

I've been lapping my no4, on 100 micron microlapping film, it works amazingly well, but there's still a bit to go,

there's 3 areas where the sole is just slightly lower than the rest of it, I haven't feathered in the edge yet with a ruler, to get to this stage has taken probably 1 hours work,

do you think it's worthwhile getting rid of the remaining low spots? I think it's incredibly close now.
.

I don't know what grit 100 mircon film is, but if its taken an hour that's way too fine
I normally get a few feet of sandpaper, clamp it with a block, and stretch the film around the plate,
keeping it clean by brushing it.
Are you using a surface plate ?. I have a nice four foot(sih) one which is perfect for sandpaper rolls.

If I understand you correctly ....you wish to intentionally dub the edges of the tools sole, by placing the tool on a ruler
so you erase these efforts, that you have been working so hard to create?
Do you see any plane manufacturer do this ....or ever?


I have an old five that I brought to the metal shop to stay
Its narrow so good for ply .... the mouth has some similar marks, because it was spot worked instead of lapped
first ....and I learned a lesson doing so
Any other plane I had, was able to be lapped to get into good shape.
This old Record donor plane was showing some signs of pitting on an area now, upon lapping after spot filing/scraping.
Because, in the beginning, the sole was thicker on one side, than the other.

I dare not to lap it any further!
You don't need to have the sole perfect to use the double iron with effect!

Tom

I'm using float glass, the 100 micron paper is quite coarse, I prefer it over sandpaper because it's definitely stuck down properly with no air gaps, it gives me better results, it never tears and it's rock solid. I finished the 100 and then went onto 40 micron after that, the feather edge helps, but I only do it on smoothers, not on my longer planes.

 

[thetyreman]

why I feather the edges is in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQyjLV92224 at the end section

 

[Ttrees]

Not in a million years, would I do that!

 

[Orraloon]

I usually agree with Paul on most of what he does but I do not see the ruler thingy being necessary. By all means round the edges a bit so they don't dig in but thats it.
As to flattening mostly flat is good enough. A couple of small low spots or the odd bit of pitting is better than having a sole too thin. You can sand it off but cant put any back on.
Regards
John

 

[Jacob]

Just keep at it if that's what turns you on :lol:
But generally it's completely unnecessary - obsessive flattening is just one of the weird rituals of the modern sharpeners.
Where it is necessary there are much quicker and easier ways to do it.

 

[Mr T]

You say that the plane is working amazingly, so perhaps you don't need to go any further. If you're happy with it's performance stop. I don't think you need to go onto finer grits either a scratchy bottom doesn't matter, I've got a scratchy bottom and it's fine! Paul Sellars isn't very specific about why he feathers the sides of his planes, I wonder if he's trying to address a problem that isn't there.

I think the condition of the cap iron/chip breaker is a far more important element in the perfomance of a plane than the flatness of the sole.

Chris

 

[deema]

It’s a no4, a smoothing plane but even so, after you have ever so slightly curved the blade to avoid tram lines you are unlikely to be cutting at the edges of the mouth where the hollows are. The area just in front of the mouth of the plane is what is important. It holds the wood fibres down as you plane enabling them to break off without hopefully causing tear out. Since the areas won’t be cutting you flat enough. The other area further back is irrelevant, the Japanese planes have only two or three flat areas, around the mouth and the heel and sometimes the toe,heel and around the mouth. They deliberately hollow out the ares inbetween.

Knocking off the edges on a plane is usually done with a fine file. It stops the sole bruising if you knock an edge.

Any plane after a bit of use will have scratches on the bottom, so I wouldn’t worry about them. I personally like a a none shiny bottom as I feel it holds wax better and releases it as you warm the sole up with vigorous use.

 

[bugbear]

Are you using a surface plate ?. I have a nice four foot(sih) one which is perfect for sandpaper rolls.

Wow. :shock:

BugBear

 

[Bod]

I've been lapping my no4, on 100 micron microlapping film, it works amazingly well, but there's still a bit to go,

there's 3 areas where the sole is just slightly lower than the rest of it, I haven't feathered in the edge yet with a ruler, to get to this stage has taken probably 1 hours work,

do you think it's worthwhile getting rid of the remaining low spots? I think it's incredibly close now.

I've attached an image to give you a better idea, didn't take any pictures before I started but it was much worse than it is now trust me.

In a word, no.
No more work is required, the really important area, just in front of the mouth, is flat.

Bod

 

[Jacob]

... I don't think you need to go onto finer grits either a scratchy bottom doesn't matter, I've got a scratchy bottom and it's fine! ...

I had a new QS no4 and it had a scratchy bottom. It had been machined along the length of the sole and it meant that it tended to skate along in a straight line.
OK up to a point. To remove this tendency would take about 5 seconds on a piece of 150 grit wet n dry. That's enough to take the sharpness off the peaks of the scratches, in effect producing a polished surface i.e. where contact is made.
Or if you do nothing at all with a scratchy bottom less than an hour of use will achieve the same polished effect. That's what happened with my QS - self correction.
Doing nothing at all is often a good option.

All this frantic polishing and working through the grits is just for people who have nothing else to do. You can flatten (if you must) with 80 grit, then polish enough to reduce friction with a few seconds on 150 grit: job done!

 

[Dangermouse 2nd]

You dont need to get a plane sole within a .000000001 of flatness, Think of what amazing work the georgian cabinet maker did with planes that well to be honest would be deemed not fit for purpose, unless fettled to within an inch of their life, today. Within two or three thou is plenty and dont need to shave in the mirror reflection either. Nice to look at yes, contributed nothing to working though.

 

[thetyreman]

Not in a million years, would I do that!

:lol:

 

[MikeG.]

.......All this frantic polishing and working through the grits is just for people who have nothing else to do. You can flatten (if you must) with 80 grit, then polish enough to reduce friction with a few seconds on 150 grit: job done!

Whilst I agree with you Jacob, I don't think anyone is actually advocating this (working through the grits/ frantic polishing), so this could be called a straw-man argument.

 

[El Barto]

Think you've opened a can of worms here Tyreman ... :-k :-D

 

[thetyreman]

I finished it today, there is definitely an improvement, I know some of you will think I'm mad but I can feel it in use, more control and able to get finer shavings.

I see it as a once only job, it will now outlast me for sure, it probably took about 2 hours of work maximum with breaks on and off.

Do any of you re-lap planes periodically? just out of interest.

 

[MikeG.]

....Do any of you re-lap planes periodically? just out of interest.

No. Once per plane per lifetime is enough, unless you wreck the plane somehow with an accident or flood.

 

[Ttrees]

Use that plane with a tight mouth, taking heavy shavings for the setting, and feel the plane heat up
in front of the mouth!
I'd think I would call that lapping :lol:

I haven't moved my frogs forward since learning the cap iron setting, they're all the way back flush with the casting.
If the frog was forward, the cap iron setting would not really work.

If the sole remains shiny, and not in one place and wearing a slot like plywood does to wood planes
why would you want to do it again?
I don't like the taste of cast iron

Tom