Dateing record vice

[PaulRK]

Hello, my first post here. I have an old rusty Record 52 woodworking vice and I was wondering if it was possible to find out it's approximate date from the number on the front? I've included a picture of the front, the rest of the vice is in a bowl soaking in oil before i clean it.

Also, it is missing the end bracket and pin, are these very important for use? or could I get away with not having them?

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Mike Jordan]

I don't think it's going to be easy to date it since my 50 year old 53 with a quick release bears exactly the same number.
Mike.

 

[AndyT]

Have a read of this comprehensive thread for all the available information

evolution-of-the-record-52-1-2-quick-release-vice-t106895.html

 

[Nigel Burden]

Hello all. This is also my first post. I have a Record 52 similar to this, but there are differences. Earlier vices didn't have a cover to the screw to protect it from sawdust. There are other differences in outwardly similar vices. If I am correct the reg. no. was dispensed with around the late 1930s/40s.

The link given by Andy is probably your best option.

Nigel.

 

[PaulRK]

Have a read of this comprehensive thread for all the available information

evolution-of-the-record-52-1-2-quick-release-vice-t106895.html

Thank you Andy , had a good read of that and looked at mine carefully, seems I have a pre 1933 vice, with only one bit missing. Not bad for something off of freecycle.

 

[nabs]

Hi PaulRK and welcome to the forum, the best estimate is between 1918 (date of the design patent) and the mid 1930s. Until someone turns up some more evidence this is the most precise we can say, I'm afraid.

not sure what part you are referirng to when you mention the 'end bracket and pin' but if you mean the cast iron part held on by a cotter pin on the end of the steel rods, then yes this is needed to make it work.

Incidentally, MikeJordan if yours has the RD number and is only 50 years old this would be surprising - the patent will have expired in the early 1930s.

PS Nigel B the 'screw and nut cover' was introduced in 1927 but only available on select models until the 1960s when it became standard.

my best attempt at a timeline is here - better information gratefully recieved!

 

[PaulRK]

Hi Nick, yes that is what I meant. I guess I will have to make one then with some decent thick steel.
I have a vice with a spring under the half nut, so I think from you timeline it's definitely before 1932?

 

[nabs]

again, difficult to be precise although that was one of the earlier designs (eventually superseded by the more common watch spring on the inside of the front jaw) - but yes almost certainly 1920s. I hope you get it working - it is testament to the excellent manufacturing standards of this company that so many still survive

 

[Mike Jordan]

It looks as if the vice I payed three pounds ten shillings for 50 years ago is older than I am!
Mike.

 

[toolsntat]

Hi Nick, yes that is what I meant. I guess I will have to make one then with some decent thick steel

Be aware the middle hole is often offset to the outside ones.
Cheers Andy

 

[nabs]

Hi Nick, yes that is what I meant. I guess I will have to make one then with some decent thick steel.

Irvin (who still make a modern copy) do supply spare parts including the end bracket but I think the rods on the newer models are slightly thinner than the oldies.

The bracket's only function is to keep the rods aligned and to give the screw something to brace against so I don't see why you can't make a replacement. I think the holes to receive the rod and screw will have to be a good fit to keep everything parallel and you can use the holes on the carriage as a template to get the layout right. Here is a pic of the same part on mine if it helps (the newer ones are made of pressed steel btw)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You've a No Entry sign on the end of yours?

Seriously, when you replace the end plate use a nail or something with a very slight kink in it rather than a cotter pin - it's easier to tap out with the vice in situ if you wish the take the thing apart to clean the threads.

 

[nabs]

yes I used a bit of old nail on mine too (see pic!)

 

[memzey]

I’ve mentioned this before but I don’t think it’s true that all later models (square boss) of Record vices have the dust guard. I have four Record vices - two square boss (53 and 52) and two round boss (52 1/2 and 52) and neither of them have the dust guard. Unless the standard only applied to square boss 52 1/2’s (which may be the case I suppose) I think it must have continued to be an option of some sort, at least for a while.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My square boss 53E has one.

 

[nabs]

so far as I know it was only standard issue on the C&J Hampton made 'square boss' version (1963 onwards) - it was no doubt ejected as an unnecessary frivolity after Irvin took over.

 

[memzey]

I’ve seen that before. The two I’m referring to are definitely Records (pre-Irwin), QR and square boss so post 1960’s. That’s why I have to assume that the cover was an option or at least not standard on all models. I’ll try to take some pics tonight to share.

 

[nabs]

Please do, and happy to be corrected

 

[Nigel Burden]

I have a square boss 521/2 and a round boss 52, both have dust covers.

Nigel.

 

[memzey]

Some pics:

My square boss 53:

Round boss 52 1/2:

Round boss 52:

Couldn’t get to my square boss 52 (don’t ask) but it’s the same. Puzzling if you ask me.